Honerveres vs Trekies

Belial666 wrote:
But most importantly, range and type of weaponry. Star Wars still fights with mostly directed energy weapons. And no matter how powerful they are, these kinds of weapons are lightspeed-limited and thus will miss against typical Honorverse ships for many reasons.

I will disagree with you about the importance of the type of weaponry and focus on a different item on the ships. At what range would an Imperial Star Destroyer be able to see an Invictus class SD, and vice versa? Type and range of sensor systems are not gone into in any depth during the original three movies, so it is possible that our two theoretical opponents would not even be able to see one another until they are within energy range.

While the standoff laser range of Honorverse Laser Heads would come as a nasty surprise to an ISD, could they even target the ISD?

Another improbable is the range of a x-wing, as this single seat fighter is seen as going on interplanetary voyages in Empire Strikes Back. No Honorverse ship of that size could visit another planet in the same system, never mind another system. The X-wing is shown to be similar in size to an F-14 Tomcat, or AV-8B Harrier. The smallest military vessels shown to be used by Honor were pinnaces that are the size of modern Jumbo Jets, and basically only have range for surface to orbit and back.

Castenea wrote:

Belial666 wrote:
But most importantly, range and type of weaponry. Star Wars still fights with mostly directed energy weapons. And no matter how powerful they are, these kinds of weapons are lightspeed-limited and thus will miss against typical Honorverse ships for many reasons.

I will disagree with you about the importance of the type of weaponry and focus on a different item on the ships. At what range would an Imperial Star Destroyer be able to see an Invictus class SD, and vice versa? Type and range of sensor systems are not gone into in any depth during the original three movies, so it is possible that our two theoretical opponents would not even be able to see one another until they are within energy range.

While the standoff laser range of Honorverse Laser Heads would come as a nasty surprise to an ISD, could they even target the ISD?

Another improbable is the range of a x-wing, as this single seat fighter is seen as going on interplanetary voyages in Empire Strikes Back. No Honorverse ship of that size could visit another planet in the same system, never mind another system. The X-wing is shown to be similar in size to an F-14 Tomcat, or AV-8B Harrier. The smallest military vessels shown to be used by Honor were pinnaces that are the size of modern Jumbo Jets, and basically only have range for surface to orbit and back.

About sensor I don't remember exactly but I know that they can usually check part of the system as the honorverse do and some systems have a system of bouys and sensor platforms to cover the entire system, same as the honorverse.

The range of an X-Wing is huge usually normal people use the X-wing on jump that go from 16 to 36 hours then rest and do another jump, the only ones that did use the capability of the X-wing to do extremely long ranged jumps were jedis who entered into a kind of trance that let them sleep for 2 to 4 weeks, the jedis could also navigate inside of hyperspace and that was an ability that no one else could use so sometimes they could shave some days of a trip by taking some kind of shortcuts.

I dont remember too well but I think that from coruscant to Tatooine it was around 3 to 4 weeks on hyperspace, merchant were slower and military ships were faster same as in the honorverse, in the end the hyperspace was a different dimension that existed on the same reality but this dimension let you move faster than light, but if you calculated wrong and hit a planet on normal space or hyperspace you were screwed and became space dust.

Mitchell, Esq. wrote:Star Wars Intradictor Class Cruisers, which generate a simulated gravity well that prohibits translation into hyper...

Interesting tactical possibilities.

An engagement that isn't within the hyper limit which should be a skirmish anyone can break off from suddenly becomes one which is now a pounding match merely to escape...

On that note if IRC there was a couple instances in some books where those SWICC's pulled a few ships from hyperspace under some circumstances. Cant remember which books but since there is a plethora of starwars books out there maybe you guys might remeber the instances i am thinking of. Reason i mention this is that can set up a ambush which cna be a rude surprise.

viciokie wrote:

Mitchell, Esq. wrote:Star Wars Intradictor Class Cruisers, which generate a simulated gravity well that prohibits translation into hyper...

Interesting tactical possibilities.

An engagement that isn't within the hyper limit which should be a skirmish anyone can break off from suddenly becomes one which is now a pounding match merely to escape...

On that note if IRC there was a couple instances in some books where those SWICC's pulled a few ships from hyperspace under some circumstances. Cant remember which books but since there is a plethora of starwars books out there maybe you guys might remeber the instances i am thinking of. Reason i mention this is that can set up a ambush which cna be a rude surprise.

Grand Admiral Thrawn was infamous for this, both in using the Interdictor to pull enemy ships out of Hyperspace (possible if you have good intel on the route being taken) and friendly ships (via pre-planned microjumping). The latter technique was used to drop starships into battle with supreme precision, dropping them into realspace in exactly the right position to do serious damage to their targets. Admiral Ackbar later used that technique himself, calling it the "Thrawn Pincer".

It is known that the Interdictor's capabilities occasionally acted against it. One book had an Interdictor accidently pulling Rogue Squadron out of Hyperspace while trying to prevent a smugglers ship from escaping. The sensor records were later used by an Imperial agent to work out where Rogue Squadron had been trying to get to, thus setting up for a commando assault...

Tenshinai wrote:<SNIP>
I dont really have any specific desire for either side to "win". Star Wars usually beats them anyway.
And if we add in Nanoha-verse with it´s magitech, well it´s kinda hard to even find a ship that can play dimensional hide and seek, much less hit it. And whose beam weapons dont care about such little trifles as being fired away from an enemy, beams that can turn for the win! ^_^
And if they get hit, you´re just signing up to get befriended, Nanoha-pink beams of doom-style. ;)

<SNIP>

If we're throwing in Nanoha then Nanoha could take out the Federation, while Fate could wipe out the honourverse i the meantime Hiyate and her knights kick Star Wars aris

If I had the Tardis I'd just go back to a generation before the crucial inventers in any of these universes were born and sideline (seduce, neuter, kill, deport) their parents. Thus no C+ travel or super weapons.
Time Lords rule.

Daryl wrote:If I had the Tardis I'd just go back to a generation before the crucial inventers in any of these universes were born and sideline (seduce, neuter, kill, deport) their parents. Thus no C+ travel or super weapons.
Time Lords rule.

Sure, after all, it worked on the daleks, right??

For goodness sakes, it's all "my fandom preference wins!!!" anyway. It's really like arguing what's better, blue, the taste of steak or a hundred miles an hour. They don't relate, really.

Other than the "sci-fi"ish origin of these environments they work by totally different handwavium. "My side wins!" when we use "my" handwavium.

For example - We'll use ST TV series and official books published by the TV series technical consultant. ST wins. Yes, SW ships are strategically much faster, but ST ships can fight while travelling FTL. There's TV episodes stating that lasers have no chance of even penetrating a ST ship's navigational shields, let alone its defensive ones, which gives the Honorverse a really hard time too. You need th "rapid nadion effect" - the disintegration nonsense, to effect their shields. So they coome in faster than you can even see and a half dozen ftl self-guided kilos of antimatter land on you at 40+ MT each. Alternatively, transporters from a cloaked ship just drop torpedoes onto your bridge and reactor. So ST obviously wins.

Rubbish! Trasporters don't work through SW shields, or sidewalls, I have decided! And whatever happened to Thunder of God won't happen here, I have decided! Plus, even though in all the actual official, on-screen activity, SW shields seem pretty useless - how many x-wings got hit in SW that didn't have the hero at the controls without taking serious damage or blowing up immediately? - we'll decide that SW shields are even better than ST ones. And turbolasers can cut trhough both sidewalls and ST shields. The enhanced hyperspace mobility of SW ships means that they win!

Except, of course, that ships with large stand-off ranges, impenetrable wedges and enormous missile barrages will obliterate both. How much anti-missile fire did we see in either ST or SW? Those missiles will be able to slam their wedges directly into Star Destroyer hulls.


If you ask me, Star Wars suffers from being space opera, where the technology is all just there to provide "X shoots at Y and hits/misses" and nothing else, Star Trek suffers from a myriad of writers and producers who go for a TV spectacle or this week's technobabbly maguffin and don't have a coherent technology produced, and the Honorverse suffers from being reasonable coherent and accurate, but based for perfectly decent look-and-feel purposes on a 17thish century naval combat feel. They simply aren't really comparable. You might as well argue who wins, the appropriate SD, Elminster or Doctor Who.

Of course its all fluff, we know that the tech in most of these different universes is incompatable, but the main point is its FUN (plus it lets us all get our geek credentials out).

We come to these boards for many reasons, to discuss future plots, past events, make up new tech idea's for other board members or MWW to shoot down, or any of a thousand other reasons (not minor is which our secret masochism as RFC tortures us with various snippets, and hints). But we come from all over the world to chat, discus, agree, disagree, get angry whatever, and we have fun we make friends we'll probably never meet and we enjoy ourselves.

Besides which everone knows that the RMN would win :) (unless the federation starts assigning Magic Girls to its ships ;))

petercharters wrote:For goodness sakes, it's all "my fandom preference wins!!!" anyway. It's really like arguing what's better, blue, the taste of steak or a hundred miles an hour. They don't relate, really.

True...But I still want to see sceen in which the lost Trek ship's engineer looks at Hemphill and says "Wait...you don't have matter to energy transporters? Replicators? But...how?" and she responds "You don't use an impeller wedge, a hyperdrive or gravitic based FTL communication? Yougottabefuckingkiddingme!"

And then they each sit back, and think "Heavy..." at which time Hemphill goes for the bong, and the trek engineer breaks out the 'shine.