twistedpuppy wrote:Of course this is all nothing but conjecture, and fun conjecture at that. It depends on what assumptions are made, and there's no way to prove or disprove them. But what if phasers could penetrate an impeller wedge, and lasers and grasers do about as much damage to ST shields as a spitball? Advantage: Star Trek. Reverse those assumptions, and HV has the advantage.
Well obviously.
twistedpuppy wrote:Remember, also, that Star Trek weapons and ship to ship engagements had to have the ships close enough so audiences could see what was happening on a television or movie screen, so weapons ranges seemed to be low.
I used weapon ranges and speeds for comparison from tech sources only. And overall they´re not very impressive for ST.
And there are huge amounts of tech data research already done by people comparing ST with SW.
twistedpuppy wrote:Speed kills, peaches. In SFB game terms, HV starships are nearly immobile, and the ST starships would be firing down-the-throat and up-the-kilt salvoes more or less at will.
Speed is not maneuverability. From what i could read, for ST ships you basically choose either low speed+high maneuverability or the opposite.
ST tactical mobility is partially very high, but also partially low, their only true advantage is operational mobility, but that is only truly useful if they´re the attackers against a target area with multiple points of value.
twistedpuppy wrote:In the SFB system, Honorverse vessels will be moving a single hex in a turn under impulse power, while the warp-driven Trek vessels can move up to 31 hexes.
I would call that a terribly lousy simulation. HH ships use normal physics, they accelerate and decelerate. That doesnt make them
slow. It only means they might take a while to reach high speed or stop from a high speed run.
Emo Otaku wrote:From what I remember most ST ships fire 1 or 2 PT's at a time, can these weapons be intercepted by HV point defence?
Compared to HH-verse missiles, they´re absolutely tiny, and a most ships dont have more than a handful or two of tubes, but their maneuverability sucks bigtime so yes, totally interceptable. Hard to say if their small size is enough to make them as hard as HH missiles to hit but my guesstimate would be that they´re still a little easier to intercept.
Emo Otaku wrote:in which case it comes down to ST energy weapons (which are relatively short ranged compared to the HV) and while the Enterprize-D may have shrugged off the fire from a single x-ray laser battery how would it manage the energy from 30/40 SD sized Grazers?.
Poorly.
Based on stated energy levels on both sides, ST ships might even be one-shot kills by a DN broadside.
ST weapons overall seems very focused on being able to do very precise damage, but their output over range seems less than great.
The comparison i feel gets close is that it´s having two people fight, one with a rapier sword and the other with a scalpel. The one with the sword wont have anything like the accuracy of the other, but overall, it´s a loosing fight.
Mitchell, Esq. wrote:Point Defense is based on tracking impeller driven missiles.
What happens when your primary tracking methods...don't work?
They switch to backup tracking? Which apparently includes multiple sensors, radar, lidar, IR and maybe something more. The superlow maneuverability of ST missiles(in general at least) means unless they´re luanched at warp speed, they´re easy pickings anyway.
And if launched at warp speed, the launching ship has to accurately predict both where there will be neither sidewall nor wedge and also the exact location of the HH ship, at point of potential impact.
Mitchell, Esq. wrote:What also happens when your ECM and Decoys don't work?
Why wouldnt they work? Yes their effect would very likely be reduced, but they´re supposedly fullspectrum anyway, and decoys are still real items even if their ability to fake looking real is compromised.
darrell wrote:So lets see, you appear to be saying that if a ST torpedo is fired faster than light, it travels faster than light, if fired from rest, it is only able to travel at 0.003% of light speed or less???????? You are saying that ST torpedo's travel at it's fastest just slightly faster than a satelite in low earth orbit. (7.8km/s)
Something like that yes. Torpedoes are listed as having a warp maintainer, not a warp engine.
Listed acceleration that have been seen or stated is in the 1-10km/s/s range. Which is extreme sucks for maneuverability as only it´s inherent acceleration ability can be used for that.
So in effect, it´s quite possible that HH ships have higher maneuverability than ST torpedoes.
Yeah it´s a bit messed up. There are some of the trick ones that could be seriously nasty though, like those that can skip shields.
darrell wrote:ST torpedo's are faster than Honoverse missiles. At time of firing, the ST torpedo travels at a minimum just under the speed of light, thus will travel 8MKM in 30-40 seconds, when it takes a Honorverse MDM at full acceleration 133 seconds to travel the same 8Mkm.
No, based on all tech data i could find. ST torps have the potential to be MUCH faster, but only if the launching ship is moving fast when firing. So, wihle you can have ST torps fired at warp speed, and have it maintain that speed, fired from rest they seem utterly lame.
darrell wrote:Since when???????? In the middle of combat, captain Kirk has repetedly said turn at warp 2. combat at warp speed is common.
Even if I am wrong, ST ships can accelerate to near light speeds in seconds, Honorverse ships take hours to accelerate to 80% of light speed. (9.5 hours for a shrike at 710 G's)
I´m not guaranteeing i´m correct, that´s simply impossible since it´s a fictional universe, but based on what i can find, maneuverability during warp is very limited, although this paradigm is apparently broken when plot requires it, tech data says this is a hard limit.
darrell wrote:How???????? ST ships have an acceleration more than 1000 times greater than Honorverse ships. A ship that is limeted to 600-700 G's can not force combat on a ship that can be faster than light in just a few seconds.
You´re not thinking. HH ships have better strategic mobility thanks to higher speed using hyperspace.
This means they can go visit a star system that the ST ships must defend. The ST ships now have the option of when during the HH ships approach they will intercept, nothing else. They can do it with ease almost anytime during that approach, but sooner or later, they have to get into range, and the HH ships outrange them.
darrell wrote:Just one tactic, the ST ship approaches the Honorverse ship faster than light to a distance of 1MKM, outside effective laser and graser range
That is easily within range for HH energy weapons.
Lasers have a "effective max range" of 1Mkm, half that against ships with sidewalls active.
Grasers are implied to have much better effective range.
And that´s "EFFECTIVE", not max. Based on how their use is described, i would say there is no reason for a HH ship not to start firing at much further distances.
Damage and hitrates will be poor but the lack of sidewalls means even a poorly aimed "nudge" might do drastic damage to the ST shielding. That´s the big bad about the ST shielding, it cant opt out from being affected by a hit that would do little damage to the ship, and it only has a finite amount of deflection ability.
Sidewalls are effective as long as they´re up.
darrell wrote:fires a spread of torpedos, than retreats at faster than light speed. Since it takes more than 30 seconds for the honorverse missiles to arrive, it would be virtually impossible for the honorverse ship to even hit the star trek ship.
Those torps will have to go somewhere where there is no wedge or sidewall first of all, or they´re just junk.
Yes, hit and run is probably the only real way for ST ships to win, but size and endurance of ships involved means HH ships only needs to be lucky once or twice, ST ships needs to be lucky lots of times or be extremely lucky once(ie getting a perfect torpedo bullseye hit, something that is unlikely at best since their maneuverability is similar to the ship it´s trying to hit).
I would rather say that it would be very very tough for ST ships to do enough damage to a HH ship, while it would be "tricky" for HH ships to hit ST ships, but nowhere near impossible.
But with hordes of weapons and missile reloads on a HH ship, they can keep shooting and trying to outguess the ST ships, the opposite isnt true. Meanwhile, ST ships can try to keep cutting up the HH ships a little here and there, even if i expect most damage to be lost against sidewalls or wedge, they certainly can keep at it until they can kill it.
I simply think it´s highly likely that random chance will let the HH ships get in the one salvo it needs before the ST ship can do enough damage to really count.
