Creating an "interesting" GA v SLN naval battle

They will be rich enough that bribery is infeasible? How much more do you think the Manties pay per pound of cowpeas or onions than the SL?

kzt wrote:They will be rich enough that bribery is infeasible? How much more do you think the Manties pay per pound of cowpeas or onions than the SL?

But with the Manties they do not pay OFS and the interstellar companies the fees and overhead; so in addition to access to better medicine they will be much better off. Perhaps they were only selling onions or cowpeas before, because that was all the administrators left them.
But for those worlds where you are correct, why would the new League bribe them? There is nothing that the bribers can get in return except cowpeas and onions. And there is nothing that the Manties have lost by losing their trade that cannot be made up elsewhere.

tlb wrote:But for those worlds where you are correct, why would the new League bribe them? There is nothing that the bribers can get in return except cowpeas and onions. And there is nothing that the Manties have lost by losing their trade that cannot be made up elsewhere.

The main thing the poor worlds have to offer, is worlds with potential for high economic growth! Especially, if the League cleans up their corruption!

There aren't infinite places to trade. They can't just go "make it up" elsewhere. The League already is most of the wealth in the Galaxy.

tlb wrote:But for those worlds where you are correct, why would the new League bribe them? There is nothing that the bribers can get in return except cowpeas and onions. And there is nothing that the Manties have lost by losing their trade that cannot be made up elsewhere.

quite possibly a cat wrote:The main thing the poor worlds have to offer, is worlds with potential for high economic growth! Especially, if the League cleans up their corruption!

There aren't infinite places to trade. They can't just go "make it up" elsewhere. The League already is most of the wealth in the Galaxy.

I took KZT to be referring to those worlds that do not have the potential for high growth. Those that do have the potential will do just as well trading with Manties and they will be there first, because of the merchant fleet and location.
The Manties do not need infinite places to trade; they already have Haven, half of Silesia and the Talbot Quadrant.

tlb wrote:I took KZT to be referring to those worlds that do not have the potential for high growth. Those that do have the potential will do just as well trading with Manties and they will be there first, because of the ships and location.

Places with high potential for growth are usually the poorest nations. Those Star Nations are exactly the sort most susceptible to offers of free Prolong. Case in point: Grayson. If Manticore wants to foot the free Prolong bill, can they offer large economic aid packages? If they can do that, can they provide every child with education grants? This is a bidding war Manticore can't win. Especially if they're trying to digest their new territory gains and get those places up to speed economically, medically and educationally.

The Manties do not need infinite places to trade; they already have Haven, half of Silesia and the Talbot Quadrant.

Which isn't even enough to keep their existing merchant marine busy! UH Spoilers That's why they had all those convenient blocking ships for Beowulf.

tlb wrote:I took KZT to be referring to those worlds that do not have the potential for high growth. Those that do have the potential will do just as well trading with Manties and they will be there first, because of the ships and location.
The Manties do not need infinite places to trade; they already have Haven, half of Silesia and the Talbot Quadrant.

The example I was using is really Niger. Which has managed to pretty much go nowhere for centuries.

And in fact they do need places with money. It takes a whole lot of Niger type trading partners to equal one Germany, US or China in terms of the volume and profitability of trade.

If the SEM government wants to (and can afford to) subsidize merchants trading with people who don't actually have anything worth exporting that's one thing, but starships are ridiculously expensive and you have to make a whole lot of money on each trip if ou don't want to be watching the bank auction off your ship. So if Niger doesn't have something to export where the profit after all expenses of a single 8MT load will pay for you hauling at least a million tons of say Manticoran aircars to them then you probably don't have any business even going there.

And time is money. Will they have 8 million tons of chickpeas all harvested and containerized waiting for you, or do you have to negotiate with 437,000 different farmers, then wait while they get harvested and shipped? Every month you wait while they try to scrape together a load is a monthly payment you owe the bank. Every month you spend trying to get the best price on 6 million tons of chickpeas is another monthly payment you owe the bank.

tlb wrote:I took KZT to be referring to those worlds that do not have the potential for high growth. Those that do have the potential will do just as well trading with Manties and they will be there first, because of the ships and location.

quite possibly a cat wrote:Places with high potential for growth are usually the poorest nations. Those Star Nations are exactly the sort most susceptible to offers of free Prolong. Case in point: Grayson. If Manticore wants to foot the free Prolong bill, can they offer large economic aid packages? If they can do that, can they provide every child with education grants? This is a bidding war Manticore can't win. Especially if they're trying to digest their new territory gains and get those places up to speed economically, medically and educationally.

tlb wrote:The Manties do not need infinite places to trade; they already have Haven, half of Silesia and the Talbot Quadrant.

quite possibly a cat wrote:Which isn't even enough to keep their existing merchant marine busy!

So if the have excess merchant ships they will find it easier to trade in the Verge after the war. I expect they can provide prolong to everyone that trades with them. Plus they will have the expertise because they are already getting other places up to speed economically, medically and educationally.

But this all seems overly speculative, because you assume that the new League will immediately begin this program to crush Manticore economically. In the immediate aftermath of this war, they will not have a merchant fleet of any size and the Verge will still be feeling the effects of OFS and the predatory interstellar companies. So the Manties will be there first and with the most to offer. The new League has a lot of building of its own to do, before they go looking for trouble.

But I have not read UH yet.

Why makes you think that they can afford to provid prolong to a few trillion people for free? Which costs at least 10,000 Manticoran dollars each. Do you think the 3 billion Manticoran taxpayers will absorb a 1x10^16 dollar charge, each agreeing to pay the Queen 3.3 million dollars each for the privilege of helping to uplift the Verge?

I don't.

And I think 10,000 is the minimum, it could be significantly higher.

kzt wrote:Why makes you think that they can afford to provid prolong to a few trillion people for free? Which costs at least 10,000 Manticoran dollars each. Do you think the 3 billion Manticoran taxpayers will absorb a 1x10^16 dollar charge, each agreeing to pay the Queen 3.3 million dollars each for the privilege of helping to uplift the Verge?

I don't.

And I think 10,000 is the minimum, it could be significantly higher.

I believe that I read that prolong was discovered on Beowulf and scientists there genetically modified a plant to create it on a continuing basis. If that is true and your number is right, then forget about onions and cowpeas; have I got a cash crop for you.

Only a fraction of the population of a Verge planet are in the age gap to receive prolong.

Anyway, please give the source for your price tag. I realize that there are some plant products which are extremely pricy; but I would expect the brains at Beowulf to have created a more productive source.

Edited, because I wondered at the population figure of a trillion; but if even Gryhon has a population of 600 million according to The Honorverse Companion, then that might be a good approximation.

tlb wrote:Anyway, please give the source for your price tag. I realize that there are some plant products which are extremely pricy; but I would expect the brains at Beowulf to have created a more productive source.

Edited, because I wondered at the population figure of a trillion; but if even Gryhon has a population of 600 million according to The Honorverse Companion, then that might be a good approximation.

It cost about as much as a restaurant per one of the Flint/Weber books. David later said, well, a small restaurant. I suspect a NYC type hot dog cart costs 10k, and you can’t get much smaller than that.