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Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by Duckk   » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:20 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:Has he gotten MDM pods yet?
As of the battle of Torch he only had (IIRC) single drive, extended range, missiles (Erewhonese derivatives of the RMN's Mk14 CA-weight ERM)


Yes. It was mentioned in ART.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:21 pm

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Duckk wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:Has he gotten MDM pods yet?
As of the battle of Torch he only had (IIRC) single drive, extended range, missiles (Erewhonese derivatives of the RMN's Mk14 CA-weight ERM)


Yes. It was mentioned in ART.

Thanks
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by thinkstoomuch   » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:46 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:Has he gotten MDM pods yet?
As of the battle of Torch he only had (IIRC) single drive, extended range, missiles (Erewhonese derivatives of the RMN's Mk14 CA-weight ERM)


Bold is my emphasis.
ART Chapter 8 wrote:“Well, new construction’s already more than replaced everything I lost at Congo,” Roszak pointed out. “We’re two and a half T-years into our master building program, too, and the Carlucci Group’s actually a bit ahead of schedule on the wallers. Not a lot—we’re still looking at somewhere around two more T-years before we’ll be able to put the first SD into commission—but the light units will be ready a lot sooner than that. They’re already starting to supply us with all-up multidrive missiles for our arsenal ships as well, and however long the podnoughts are going to take, we should have the first pod battlecruisers in another ten months or so. Call it mid-October for the first units’ builder’s trials. Whatever happens with the Manties, I’m pretty damn sure they’ll last at least that long against anything a thumb-fingered ‘strategist’ like Rajampet can throw at them, if only because of the transit times involved! And, like I say, Kolokoltsov and MacArtney are going to be a lot more occupied with the unrest that’s headed for them out in the open than by our own discreet activities. On that basis, I’d say we’re almost certain to get at least a few squadrons of wallers ready for service before Rajampet decides we’re another nail that needs hammering.”


I was a little early on delivery dates for ships builders trials in Oct. So in April, 1922 he is projecting ~Feb 1923. <shrug> Really doesn't affect much one way or other soonest SLN can get hundreds of light years from SOL is . . .

Sad thing, as I haven't done much rereading of the Honorverse recently I knew it was in chapter 8, but couldn't remember which book. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have fun,
T2M

PS I need to gett faster I have only been saying this for 6 years now. And still failing miserably. Duckk beat me once again. <Grr> :lol:
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A: “No. That’s just the price. ...
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by drothgery   » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:54 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
thinkstoomuch wrote:Why? He currently has "CLs" and ammo ships that in a standard system engagement that would make lunch meat out of them firing 3 stage MDMs. Not to mention the BC(P)s that he is due to get in Oct, IIRC. Or the expected arrival of SD(P)s in the nearish future.
Has he gotten MDM pods yet?
As of the battle of Torch he only had (IIRC) single drive, extended range, missiles (Erewhonese derivatives of the RMN's Mk14 CA-weight ERM)
They were under construction at the time, and were close enough to ready that Roszak was hoping he'd have them for the Battle of Torch; he certainly has them 'now'. But it doesn't really matter; even with the Mk17 (Erewhon's version of the CA/BC ERM; the lightweight ERM in the Mk36) pods, the cruisers with extra fire control/arsenal ship set up that Maya already has is more effective than SLN SDs. And they already have BC(P)s and SD(P)s under construction.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by drothgery   » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:58 pm

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MAD-4A wrote:Don't even start with that whole "man power" excuse - I see it for Manticore & Grayson, but he has the entire Maya sector to draw from.
Many people think the manpower constraints faced by Honorverse navies are kind of silly. However, the Honorverse does work that way. It does take the most capable naval force in the Honorverse two years to turn a bright college student into a low-level enlisted man in the middle of an existential shooting war. And it does put an extraordinary high degree of strain on an Honorverse economy to have well less than 1% of its population under arms.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by thinkstoomuch   » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:59 pm

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Doesn't matter what you think it is RFC's universe and his rules.

Yep he has 8 systems to draw from. Unfortunately he is trying to hide all of it. Their manpower problems are much worse.

No War.

Their people have already had it demonstrated that pirates are not a concern. Even a major Transtellar got its butts kicked just a year ago.

He isn't going to have recruiting offices in every small town to do what all of the combatants in WW2 did. As just about any Tom, Dick or Mary would notice something like that. Perhaps that passenger liner from the Core might notice it and get it back to the Transtellar Executive who has the ear of a Mandarin.

Not to mention if he does expand that much it gets pretty thread bare to all those people that he shuffled off to the legacy fleet that are still loyal to the Solarian League or their patrons. Like his old intelligence officer.

Still not buying it,
T2M

PS amd still too slow. :lol:

MAD-4A wrote:Don't even start with that whole "man power" excuse - I see it for Manticore & Grayson, but he has the entire Maya sector to draw from. He has a full recruitment/training section already up and running which can easily be expanded (as the US did in WWII) he has the need for capitol ships, for when the SLN comes raging in with their Scientist class SDs & as for tipping his hand – that’s what 3rd party purchases are for, he has Erewhon purchase them (a few at a time) then purchases them from Erewhon (at a mark-up) threw a cut-out (the ships just “disappear” like thousands of other ships.) Space is a big area to hide a tiny (even an SD is tiny by comparison) ship in – just ask the Mesan Alignment. He doesn’t even have to fully man them immediately, just get his hands on them and supply a skeleton crew (propulsion and control) to take them to an uninhabited system for storage until he has the personnel for each of them.
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Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?”
A: “No. That’s just the price. ...
Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games"
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by munroburton   » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:13 pm

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MAD-4A wrote:Don't even start with that whole "man power" excuse - I see it for Manticore & Grayson, but he has the entire Maya sector to draw from. He has a full recruitment/training section already up and running which can easily be expanded (as the US did in WWII) he has the need for capitol ships, for when the SLN comes raging in with their Scientist class SDs & as for tipping his hand – that’s what 3rd party purchases are for, he has Erewhon purchase them (a few at a time) then purchases them from Erewhon (at a mark-up) threw a cut-out (the ships just “disappear” like thousands of other ships.) Space is a big area to hide a tiny (even an SD is tiny by comparison) ship in – just ask the Mesan Alignment. He doesn’t even have to fully man them immediately, just get his hands on them and supply a skeleton crew (propulsion and control) to take them to an uninhabited system for storage until he has the personnel for each of them.


Theemile wrote:Why? Barregos is limited on troops and cannot start real trainging of his own until he presses the button on succession - until then he needs to keep his head down. Don't forget, All Roszak had in Maya were 18 DDs and 3 CLs as of the beginning of ToF. He probably has the same # of men in logistics and admin positions, some of which he may be able to redeploy. The plans to purchase more ships locally has probably got him the crews to field 1-2 X the original OOB in the new ships - but this is all he will be getting!


18 DD = 5,400 crew by SLN standards
3 CL = 1,350

So by Roszak's official order of battle, he's reporting to SLN HQ that he has about 7,000 under his command. Using crew reduction techiques and technology obtained from Manticore via Erewhon, those 18 DD & 3 CL probably had 3,000, leaving about 4,000 free, some of which went aboard their arsenal ships.

The Mayans' recruitment program's target is only a few tens of thousands, as they are building less manpower intensive ships. Worst case, their BC(P)s will need 1,500 each and the wallers(whether they are DNPs or SDPs) 2,000.

Times three squadrons of each, that comes to 84,000, which is enough to man a grand total of 14 Scientist-class SDs.

One other consideration is that Maya hasn't yet forged a national identity to which naval personnel can be expected to pledge their lives, fortune and honor to. That process isn't going to be favourably affected if Barregos and Roszak winds up asking thousands of people to man obsolete ships.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by Theemile   » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:26 pm

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munroburton wrote:
MAD-4A wrote:Don't even start with that whole "man power" excuse - I see it for Manticore & Grayson, but he has the entire Maya sector to draw from. He has a full recruitment/training section already up and running which can easily be expanded (as the US did in WWII) he has the need for capitol ships, for when the SLN comes raging in with their Scientist class SDs & as for tipping his hand – that’s what 3rd party purchases are for, he has Erewhon purchase them (a few at a time) then purchases them from Erewhon (at a mark-up) threw a cut-out (the ships just “disappear” like thousands of other ships.) Space is a big area to hide a tiny (even an SD is tiny by comparison) ship in – just ask the Mesan Alignment. He doesn’t even have to fully man them immediately, just get his hands on them and supply a skeleton crew (propulsion and control) to take them to an uninhabited system for storage until he has the personnel for each of them.


Theemile wrote:Why? Barregos is limited on troops and cannot start real trainging of his own until he presses the button on succession - until then he needs to keep his head down. Don't forget, All Roszak had in Maya were 18 DDs and 3 CLs as of the beginning of ToF. He probably has the same # of men in logistics and admin positions, some of which he may be able to redeploy. The plans to purchase more ships locally has probably got him the crews to field 1-2 X the original OOB in the new ships - but this is all he will be getting!


18 DD = 5,400 crew by SLN standards
3 CL = 1,350

So by Roszak's official order of battle, he's reporting to SLN HQ that he has about 7,000 under his command. Using crew reduction techiques and technology obtained from Manticore via Erewhon, those 18 DD & 3 CL probably had 3,000, leaving about 4,000 free, some of which went aboard their arsenal ships.

The Mayans' recruitment program's target is only a few tens of thousands, as they are building less manpower intensive ships. Worst case, their BC(P)s will need 1,500 each and the wallers(whether they are DNPs or SDPs) 2,000.

Times three squadrons of each, that comes to 84,000, which is enough to man a grand total of 14 Scientist-class SDs.

One other consideration is that Maya hasn't yet forged a national identity to which naval personnel can be expected to pledge their lives, fortune and honor to. That process isn't going to be favourably affected if Barregos and Roszak winds up asking thousands of people to man obsolete ships.



Where does it say Maya is actively recruiting currently for it's new armed forces?I don't remember any text nor am I finding it in a quick search of ToF.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by munroburton   » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:33 pm

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Theemile wrote:Where does it say Maya is actively recruiting currently for it's new armed forces?I don't remember any text nor am I finding it in a quick search of ToF.


Sorry. I'm using the term as an useful label for wherever they're getting the manpower from for those BCPs and larger being built in Erewhon.

The warm bodies have to be coming from somewhere. I'm pointing out that however and wherever they're doing it, they can't be aiming to recruit more than a few tens of thousands, which isn't sufficient to man more than a few handfuls of ex-SLN vessels.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by Castenea   » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:41 pm

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Theemile wrote:Where does it say Maya is actively recruiting currently for it's new armed forces?I don't remember any text nor am I finding it in a quick search of ToF.

I would be shocked if they are doing some recruiting, but I would be surprised if it goes beyond having a recruiter in the 20 largest cities in the sector, and would easily believe that it is little more than an office on each of the major space stations for each planet. This brings up questions of how many recruits are planets expected to provide for the SLN, how long do enlisted spacers typically serve, and where are they trained?

If the SLN SOP is that forces recruit spacers from the area near their bases, these spacers seldom are transferred to other commands and the training is done at the bases, Barregos and Rozak could easily build a very large force loyal to Maya before anyone back at Sol realizes.
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