Honorverse ramblings and musings

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Damn! Then originally, she was right and I was wrong. Originally, sitting at the dinner table upset with my brother, she began the discussion of what would have happened if Ransom had temporarily killed Nimitz just to irk Honor. Honor survives. Rebonds, then Nimitz finds out the bond is broken.

Anyways, I thought it was the same and therefore steered the discussion in that direction. So I misled her. I should have known she was right.

Thanks. I think she'll be pleased. Although she'd probably just default to the former.

I kind of steered her in another direction because she was so upset with my brother at the time, and was adamant that Honor shouldn't quickly rebond. Then an equally intense conversation ensued about adequate grace periods of the heart, etc. etc. etc.

And in the case of human - 'cat bonds Honor is a virtually unique case. Normally the human side doesn't feel the same bond and definitely wouldn't go catatonic and die if their 'cat partner was killed. (Well, I guess a few people might have enough of an emotion reaction to any close friend or family member being killed to basically shut down; but the 'cat's bond wouldn't have any direct effect on them)

IOW you could torture a 'cat by killing their human; but it'd be far less effective the other way round. (And if their human was 'resurrected' within a few minutes I imagine the bond would still be present; despite the 'cat having felt them 'die')

cthia wrote:Question. The ballistic component gives them the range, yes, but without FTL control of the missiles that the Manty ballistic component has - along with the recon data sent back to Keyhole - along with the effectiveness of Manty ECM - it doesn't strike me that the Cataphracts would hit the broad side of a barn at extreme ballistic ranges. Especially factoring in optimal evasive maneuvers. No?

munroburton wrote: all the more hindered by the SLN not being set up for fire control at such ranges.

cthia wrote:Question. The ballistic component gives them the range, yes, but without FTL control of the missiles that the Manty ballistic component has - along with the recon data sent back to Keyhole - along with the effectiveness of Manty ECM - it doesn't strike me that the Cataphracts would hit the broad side of a barn at extreme ballistic ranges. Especially factoring in optimal evasive maneuvers. No?

cthia wrote:Question. The ballistic component gives them the range, yes, but without FTL control of the missiles that the Manty ballistic component has - along with the recon data sent back to Keyhole - along with the effectiveness of Manty ECM - it doesn't strike me that the Cataphracts would hit the broad side of a barn at extreme ballistic ranges. Especially factoring in optimal evasive maneuvers. No?

Jonathan_S wrote:
They'll have some inherent reduction in effectiveness because the smaller size of the CM powered 2nd stage means you physically can't cram in as large a sensor array. And probably some more because without the experience of engaging in very long range missile combat you probably can't develop the software and techniques to be utilize the capabilities that you have. But overall everything prior to Apollo-MDMs more or less sucked at very long range.


Of course Manticore has come a long way since those Buttercup-era MDMs. Even in units without Keyhole II they've figured out new doctrines to leverage Ghost Rider drones to reduce the impact of lightspeed lag. So Cataphracts are probably noticeably inferior in long range accuracy to even Mk16s; if fired from ships with time to utilize shadowing Ghost Rider drones.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:A question.
It came as a very recent surprise to me that the SLN had erased Manticore's missile range advantage. When the hell did that happen? What really surprises me is the speed at which the range advantage was eliminated. Why is Technodyne still standing? And how quickly will other advantages be neutralized?

The missile range advantage was erased when Technodyne produced the Cataphract. This happened even before the confrontation between the League and Manticore. Technodyne started developing the Cataphract because the Mesan Alignment pushed them into it. The Alignment didn't have Manticore's MDM technology, so they got Technodyne to develop something as close to it as possible.

It is quite possible that Manticore's other tech advantages can be similarly neutralized. As you noted, the Alignment has been watching the technology developments as closely as it can. They have not actually cracked most of Manticore's new tech, but they have at least some idea about the tech. They have undoubtedly been working on their own versions of Manticoran technology for many years. Technodyne is one of the front companies doing this R&D for them. Remember that the text notes that Solarian companies have been experimenting with FTL comms for a little while; it is likely that this, too, is being secretly pushed by the Alignment. There could be any number of R&D projects underway for years that could erode the Manticoran advantage.

As for why Technodyne is still standing--that's because Manticore has not yet executed any attacks on Solarian bases. Even if they did start raids, they might not target civilian facilities. Manticore's strategy does not involve direct attacks on infrastructure.

kzt wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:
They'll have some inherent reduction in effectiveness because the smaller size of the CM powered 2nd stage means you physically can't cram in as large a sensor array. And probably some more because without the experience of engaging in very long range missile combat you probably can't develop the software and techniques to be utilize the capabilities that you have. But overall everything prior to Apollo-MDMs more or less sucked at very long range.


Of course Manticore has come a long way since those Buttercup-era MDMs. Even in units without Keyhole II they've figured out new doctrines to leverage Ghost Rider drones to reduce the impact of lightspeed lag. So Cataphracts are probably noticeably inferior in long range accuracy to even Mk16s; if fired from ships with time to utilize shadowing Ghost Rider drones.

I doubt they are using the CM sensors for anything. It's just a propulsion stage.

Jonathan_S wrote:So I'm assuming it has a smaller diameter sensor array as well as that smaller warhead. Not a CM sensor per se; since it's optimized for targetting warships, not missiles; but still a smaller sensor than you could have fit to a full sized capital ship missile.

kzt wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:So I'm assuming it has a smaller diameter sensor array as well as that smaller warhead. Not a CM sensor per se; since it's optimized for targetting warships, not missiles; but still a smaller sensor than you could have fit to a full sized capital ship missile.

What makes you think the CM is in front?

Torch of Freedom wrote:they'd simply grafted what amounted to an entire counter-missile drive unit onto the end of a standard shipkiller. Coming up with an arrangement which let them cram that much impeller power and a worthwhile laser head into something they could fit onto the end of a standard missile had demanded quite a bit of ingenuity (and not a few basic compromises)
...
Compared to standard missiles of their size, their warheads were light, and the onboard seekers, ECM, and penetration aids which could be stuffed into such a size-restricted terminal bus were limited.

Mission of Honor wrote:n the meantime, they’d come up with Cataphract, a variant of their own based on taking the standard missile bodies for the SLN’s new-generation anti-ship missiles and adding what amounted to a separate final stage carrying a standard laser head and a counter-missile’s drive system.

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:Question. The ballistic component gives them the range, yes, but without FTL control of the missiles that the Manty ballistic component has - along with the recon data sent back to Keyhole - along with the effectiveness of Manty ECM - it doesn't strike me that the Cataphracts would hit the broad side of a barn at extreme ballistic ranges. Especially factoring in optimal evasive maneuvers. No?

My suspicion is that someone will assume than and get their ass handed to them.