Honorverse ramblings and musings

crewdude48 wrote:My advice, Cthia, is to put down Cauldron, and read the other books before starting it again. The Honorverse is best read in publication order, otherwise it doesn't make all that much sense.

Proper reading order should be:
1. On Basilisk Station (Apr 92)
2. Honor of the Queen (June 93)
3. The Short Victorious War (Apr 94)
4. Field of Dishonor (Dec 94)
5. Flag In Exile (Sep 95)
6. Honor Among Enemies (Feb 96)
7. In Enemy Hands (Jul 97)
8. More Than Honor (Jan 98)(Anthology)
9. Echoes of Honor (Oct 98)
10. World of Honor (Feb 99)(Anthology)
11. Ashes of Victory (Mar 00)
12. Changer of Worlds (Mar 01)(Anthology)
13. War of Honor (Oct 02)
14. The Service of the Sword (Apr 03)(Anthology)
15. Crown of Slaves (Sep03)
16. The Shadow of Saganami (Oct 04)
17. At All Costs (Nov 05)
18. Storm from the Shadows (Mar 09)
19. Torch of Freedom (Nov 09)
20. Mission of Honor (June 10)
21. In Fire Forged (Feb 11) (Anthology)
22. A Rising Thunder (Mar 12)
23. Shadow of Freedom (Mar 13)
24. House of Steel (May 13) (Compendium)
25. Beginnings (July 13) (Anthology)
26. Cauldron of Ghosts (Apr 14)

Publication order is definitely the best reading order for the Honorverse in the current time period. Also for any books in the Honorverse in any particular time period.

Read the short story Grayson Navy Letters Home (2012) in the Baen Free Stories 2012 collection before reading [edit] the short story [/edit] Obligated Service in the Beginnings anthology.

The young adult short story and novels of The Star Kingdom:

0. Honorverse Tech Bu9 in the Baen Free Stories 2011 collection.
1. A Beautiful Friendship
2. Fire Season
3. Treecat Wars

are centered on Stephanie Harrington and the Sphinx Forestry Service in the early days of the Star Kingdom and can be read at any time separately, but are not necessary to understand the current Honorverse.

The short story and novel in the Manticore Ascendant series:

0. A Call to Arms in the Beginnings anthology
1. A Call to Duty

are centered on Travis Long and the Royal Manticoran Navy in the early days of the Star Kingdom and can be read at any time separately. More novels are planned in this series.

Baen Free Stories collections are available ate Baen Ebooks in the Free Library.

Cthia, you have actually read about the Audubon Ballroom before, you just don't remember. They are mentioned in numerous previous books and stories in the anthologies.

The Audubon Ballroom are the most militant anti-slavery group in the galaxy.

It is composed of escaped slaves who vowed vengeance against Manpower and against those who take part in Manpower's services. They are terrorists who target the people who keep genetic slavery going. When possible, they will free slaves and kill the slavers. They are known for identifying civilians who have close ties to Manpower and executing them in gruesome ways. They do not kill slaves unless they are collaborating with Manpower to betray other slaves and ex-slaves.

It was the Audubon Ballroom who founded Torch, in conjunction with Haven, Erewhon, and Manticoran assistance. Since the establishment of Torch, there has been somewhat of a split in the Ballroom, with some toning down the violence and supporting Torch as the champion of freeing slaves, while others continue on their own quests for violent vengeance.

The Beowulf Survey Corps is nominally a minor Beowulf government organization surveying stars, but in reality is an elite military force dedicated to wiping out genetic slavery. They do much the same kind of things as the Audubon Ballroom, except not so messily, very much not publicly, and in a more organized fashion. The two disagree on methodology. The Ballroom often goes more for public vengeance, while the BSC focuses on targeted secret strikes and intelligence gathering.

SWM wrote:Cthia, you have actually read about the Audubon Ballroom before, you just don't remember. They are mentioned in numerous previous books and stories in the anthologies.

The Audubon Ballroom are the most militant anti-slavery group in the galaxy.

It is composed of escaped slaves who vowed vengeance against Manpower and against those who take part in Manpower's services. They are terrorists who target the people who keep genetic slavery going.

Which, just to clarify, isn't only Manpower, or the actual slave owners, or Jessyk for transporting them. The Ballroom will go after people who look the other way on slavery transhipment point and 'pleasure'-slave resorts, or even (IIRC) occasionally some of the high rollers who use 'pleasure'-slaves.

They're perfectly happy terrorizing people on both the supply-side and demand-side of genetic slavery.

SWM wrote:Cthia, you have actually read about the Audubon Ballroom before, you just don't remember. They are mentioned in numerous previous books and stories in the anthologies.

The Audubon Ballroom are the most militant anti-slavery group in the galaxy.

It is composed of escaped slaves who vowed vengeance against Manpower and against those who take part in Manpower's services. They are terrorists who target the people who keep genetic slavery going. When possible, they will free slaves and kill the slavers. They are known for identifying civilians who have close ties to Manpower and executing them in gruesome ways. They do not kill slaves unless they are collaborating with Manpower to betray other slaves and ex-slaves.

It was the Audubon Ballroom who founded Torch, in conjunction with Haven, Erewhon, and Manticoran assistance. Since the establishment of Torch, there has been somewhat of a split in the Ballroom, with some toning down the violence and supporting Torch as the champion of freeing slaves, while others continue on their own quests for violent vengeance.

The Beowulf Survey Corps is nominally a minor Beowulf government organization surveying stars, but in reality is an elite military force dedicated to wiping out genetic slavery. They do much the same kind of things as the Audubon Ballroom, except not so messily, very much not publicly, and in a more organized fashion. The two disagree on methodology. The Ballroom often goes more for public vengeance, while the BSC focuses on targeted secret strikes and intelligence gathering.

Thank you, everyone, for understanding my ignorance.

Thanks crewdude and Vince both for the latest recommended reading order. I'd like you to know that I've actually written the recommended reading order down this time with the intention to obey. Except, truthfully, I'm already into Cauldron, and kind of want to finish it. Then I'll go back and proceed in recommended fashion. I SO thank you both for that.

SWM, I do, indeed, recall reading about the Ballroom. Here and there. But without those other reads, too much space was left inbetween the lines. I totally misread the Ballroom. No wonder kzt was scratching his head. I would have been left scratching my ass, as well, if reversed. My apologies kzt. Anti-slavery? When I read that SWM, I was like

What confused me, were the passages of Cathy's and Anton's threat to Georgia about the Ballroom. I thought they would be going after her as much to return her to her original status of being a slave even more than for what she did. Now, because of all of your elucidation, that entire exchange between Georgia and Cathy & Anton, has much more meaning. My own example as to the pitfalls of reading out of order.

I am in all of your debt.

Thanks.

Thank you much for this post SWM.

Oh, I almost forgot. I knew that there were ex-Ballroom members on Torch, but I thought that they were dissidents because they had an epiphany about the morality of what, I thought, the Ballroom stood for. Ex-slaves, speak for themselves.

Man, was I lost amongst the tall corn.

I have no idea what sort of a total mental image I have of slavers. I'm pretty much in the dark trying to psychoanalyze them.

Reading Cauldron, I am quite surprised. And shocked to anger! To find out that slavers are comprised of male and female. Huh???

That's so far removed from any guess I would have made that it's like a sucker punch to my brain.

I'm stuck on stupid ...

"Does not compute Does not compute does not compute does not compute does not ..."

cthia wrote:I have no idea what sort of a total mental image I have of slavers. I'm pretty much in the dark trying to psychoanalyze them.

Reading Cauldron, I am quite surprised. And shocked to anger! To find out that slavers are comprised of male and female. Huh???

That's so far removed from any guess I would have made that it's like a sucker punch to my brain.

I'm stuck on stupid ...

"Does not compute Does not compute does not compute does not compute does not ..."

Evil's equal opportunity. Remember, full, total sexual equality is no big thing, a matter of course, among the "civilized" portion of the Honorverse. (In the sense of having a developed, modern culture - not in any specifically approving sense.) What plumbing you have is a matter for your tailor, doctor, and sex partners, not your employer. Grayson and Masada are atavistic exceptions. The most liberal of current societies would have some distinctly creepy undertones - at a bare minimum - going on for a 1922 PD Manticoran or Old Earther.

Granted, if the evil activities have a sexual aspect to them, sex will matter. Just how it does also can get complicated. I suppose if you're (e.g.) a Manpower employee responsible for raping sex slaves in training daily, your plumbing does become an issue. (Although I'm sure they're raped by both sexes in any number of ways just to acclimatize to whatever their eventual owner(s) may care to do.)

Yeah, slavery, it's not good at all. I'm a very gentle soul and I've got a hard time condemning the Ballroom for being generous in terms of who gets to be a target in reply to it.

JeffEngel wrote:

cthia wrote:I have no idea what sort of a total mental image I have of slavers. I'm pretty much in the dark trying to psychoanalyze them.

Reading Cauldron, I am quite surprised. And shocked to anger! To find out that slavers are comprised of male and female. Huh???

That's so far removed from any guess I would have made that it's like a sucker punch to my brain.

I'm stuck on stupid ...

"Does not compute Does not compute does not compute does not compute does not ..."

Evil's equal opportunity. Remember, full, total sexual equality is no big thing, a matter of course, among the "civilized" portion of the Honorverse. (In the sense of having a developed, modern culture - not in any specifically approving sense.) What plumbing you have is a matter for your tailor, doctor, and sex partners, not your employer. Grayson and Masada are atavistic exceptions. The most liberal of current societies would have some distinctly creepy undertones - at a bare minimum - going on for a 1922 PD Manticoran or Old Earther.

Granted, if the evil activities have a sexual aspect to them, sex will matter. Just how it does also can get complicated. I suppose if you're (e.g.) a Manpower employee responsible for raping sex slaves in training daily, your plumbing does become an issue. (Although I'm sure they're raped by both sexes in any number of ways just to acclimatize to whatever their eventual owner(s) may care to do.)

Yeah, slavery, it's not good at all. I'm a very gentle soul and I've got a hard time condemning the Ballroom for being generous in terms of who gets to be a target in reply to it.

Yea, in retrospect, I can intone all of the arguments admonishing myself. But at the end of the day, I still can't wrap my brain around it or sink my teeth in it without a bitter reaction.

ARE we just a product of our environments?

cthia wrote:I have no idea what sort of a total mental image I have of slavers. I'm pretty much in the dark trying to psychoanalyze them.

Reading Cauldron, I am quite surprised. And shocked to anger! To find out that slavers are comprised of male and female. Huh???

That's so far removed from any guess I would have made that it's like a sucker punch to my brain.

I'm stuck on stupid ...

"Does not compute Does not compute does not compute does not compute does not ..."

You have probably also missed the fact that sex slaves are only a small fraction of the genetic slaves. A large fraction of the genetic slaves are designed for entertainment, tech services, and hard labor. The sex slaves are certainly the most profitable per capita, and the most odious examples, but they are actually a minority. Jeremy X, former leader of the Ballroom and current Minister of War for Torch, was designed and trained as an acrobat and juggler.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:I have no idea what sort of a total mental image I have of slavers. I'm pretty much in the dark trying to psychoanalyze them.

Reading Cauldron, I am quite surprised. And shocked to anger! To find out that slavers are comprised of male and female. Huh???

That's so far removed from any guess I would have made that it's like a sucker punch to my brain.

I'm stuck on stupid ...

"Does not compute Does not compute does not compute does not compute does not ..."

You have probably also missed the fact that sex slaves are only a small fraction of the genetic slaves. A large fraction of the genetic slaves are designed for entertainment, tech services, and hard labor. The sex slaves are certainly the most profitable per capita, and the most odious examples, but they are actually a minority. Jeremy X, former leader of the Ballroom and current Minister of War for Torch, was designed and trained as an acrobat and juggler.

Picked up the other from various posts, but ...

Designed and trained as an acrobat and juggler?? Certainly didn't know that!

I suppose he is still juggling people's fate.

cthia wrote:

SWM wrote: Jeremy X, former leader of the Ballroom and current Minister of War for Torch, was designed and trained as an acrobat and juggler.

Picked up the other from various posts, but ...

Designed and trained as an acrobat and juggler?? Certainly didn't know that!

I suppose he is still juggling people's fate.

He capers and jests quite a lot. If anyone is afraid of clowns, Jeremy can play right into that very well.

W.E.B. Du Havel was meant to be some heavy-lifting technical worker of sorts. Manpower's never designed slaves to be freedom fighters or political theorists, and yet their clowns and truck mechanics seem to do the jobs perfectly well.

If the Alignment had open minds, they'd reflect on just how much individual human development does not give a flying fig what the LRPB can manage with genetic engineering and selective breeding.