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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:35 pm

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Hutch wrote:
cthia wrote:My sister asked me a puzzling question. I have no answer and thought I'd pose it here.

As myself, she likes the Mars Trilogy. (More because of its soap opera like feel) There she was exposed to the idea of colony ships. She asked me how every system settled in the Honorverse managed to produce the same type of ship propulsion and weapons systems in the end. "If every system was so remote and cut off from each other, how did their technology travel(npi) down the same paths. Why aren't some ships powered by this and some by this and some by that," she asks.

Is there a book that describes it all. Perhaps a detailed account of the diaspora of man?


Probably "The Universe of Honor Harrington" in one of the short story collections does as good a job as any. Also House of Steel describes the settlement and development of Grayson and Manticore in some detail.

The initial colony efforts (like Grayson and later, Manticore), were by 'slow ship', fusion-powered but with the passengers in cyronic storage and moving at well below the speed of light. So colonization would often take centuries to get to a location.

Once a reliable hyperspace ship was developed (and it took quite some time), then ships could be sent out to the new colonies to'spread the word'. Indeed, when the original Manticore colonists arrived, they found a team already there awaiting them, having arrived via Hyperspace.

As for Grayson, they depended upon the 'fusion-powered ramscoop' sub-light ships to first exile the Faithful and then defend Grayosn from their attacks. House of Steel then picks up the story:

In 1793 PD, the Havenite merchant ship Goliath contacted both Yeltsin’s Star and the Endicott System, reestablishing contact between the descendants of Austin Grayson’s colonists and the rest of humanity.

Although additional contacts with the galactic mainstream were sporadic and infrequent, to say the least, the effects of rediscovery were profound. New technologies, whose possibility had never occurred to any Grayson or Masadan, were revealed, and a period of frenetic R&D ensued, driven by the longstanding hostility between the two star systems. Although neither Grayson nor Masada could obtain more than bits and pieces from their occasional visitors, both were aware of the dire consequences of falling behind their enemies, and both introduced domestically engineered versions of the hyperdrive, impeller drive, and Warshawski sail in remarkably short order.

The locally produced iterations of those systems were both crude and outmoded compared to more modern systems, yet in the process of essentially reinventing technologies the rest of the galaxy had enjoyed for centuries, Grayson researchers opened several promising lines of development which had not occurred to anyone else.


So the answer was diffusion, either direct or indirect, to systems because the hyperdrive allowed people to go most anywhere we were.

Are there still human systems out there that have never been contacted and still don't know about the hyperdrive? Possibly, but that is not the story the MWW has discussed.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Thanks again, Hutch. Not sure if it'll satisfy sis, but I'll pass it along. Thanks even more for the read recommendations, as I'm trying to push sis close enough to the spinning vortex that is the 'Verse to get her pulled in. She just may elect to read those. So too shall I.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:53 pm

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cthia wrote:My sister asked me a puzzling question. I have no answer and thought I'd pose it here.

As myself, she likes the Mars Trilogy. (More because of its soap opera like feel) There she was exposed to the idea of colony ships. She asked me how every system settled in the Honorverse managed to produce the same type of ship propulsion and weapons systems in the end. "If every system was so remote and cut off from each other, how did their technology travel(npi) down the same paths. Why aren't some ships powered by this and some by this and some by that," she asks.

Is there a book that describes it all. Perhaps a detailed account of the diaspora of man?

To amplify some of what Hutch already said, I'd say look at the timeline of the Honorverse.

The disapora doesn't really get rolling until the 5th century PD, when safe Cryogenics becomes widely available.

Then the 8th century (before some of the sublight ships had even reached their destinations) the hyperdrive was invented and ships could (at high risk) travel the Alpha bands of hyperspace to scout for new systems; (and quite possibly drop off information and pick up fuel at the more established colonies while working their way out and back)

That goes on for 13th centry the Warshawski sail is invented and we've got safe reliable hyper transit up into the IIRC gamma bands. Tramp freighters are going to start (occasionally) showing up opening up lines of communication between the colonies and back to the nascent Solarian League.

Then we have over 6 centuries of increasingly common and (somewhat) frequent hyper travel to many colonies until the events in OBS kick off in the early 20th century PD.


There probably was some significant variation in tech in those early colonies, or in ones cut off (like Grayson). But it was innovations from a tech back centuries behind where we are now. And pretty much to have external pressure to develop new space weapons requires you to have usable hyperdrives (because a sustained intra-system fight seems very unlikely). But hyperdrives are exactly what cause your isolation to end; allowing you access to the markets and research of the greater humanity. 6 centuries is a lot of time for any idiosyncratic advances, technology, or weapons, to be subsumed into the general shared tech base of humanity.


And, if you read A Call to Duty and the short story A Call to Arms, there are some indications that weapons tech and ship designs are nowhere near as standardized back in Travis Long's time (16th century PD).
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SWM   » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:37 pm

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cthia wrote:My sister asked me a puzzling question. I have no answer and thought I'd pose it here.

As myself, she likes the Mars Trilogy. (More because of its soap opera like feel)

Diverging from the actual question you were asking--which Mars Trilogy are you thinking of? I can come up with several. Just curious. :)
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:48 pm

cthia
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SWM wrote:
cthia wrote:My sister asked me a puzzling question. I have no answer and thought I'd pose it here.

As myself, she likes the Mars Trilogy. (More because of its soap opera like feel)

Diverging from the actual question you were asking--which Mars Trilogy are you thinking of? I can come up with several. Just curious. :)

There's only one Mars Trilogy. Any others are only pretenders. There's nothing like Kim Stanley Robinson's RED, GREEN and BLUE MARS.

And of course KSR's later related work, the MARTIANS.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by stewart   » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:11 pm

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cthia wrote:I'm trying to determine the baddest of the baddest of the anal orifices that side of the Pecos.

My memory only serves up ...

-Beowulf's Biological Survey Crew (BSC)
-Solarian Gendermerie.
-The Royal Manticoran Marine Corp (RMMC)
-The Grayson Space Marine Corp (GSMC). I simply had to include a Corps with an elite special battalion called the Orbit Dogs.

Did I miss any? And who is the baddest of the lot?



---------------

I would not mention the Solarian Gendermerie in the same breath as BSC / RMMC Grayson Marines.

Solarian Gendermerie might personally be a$$h*le$ but militarily they are incompetent thugs.

The real Solaran Marines (example Thandi prior to Torch) would fit the list.

-- Stewart
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by stewart   » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:24 pm

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cthia wrote:I'm trying to determine the baddest of the baddest of the anal orifices that side of the Pecos.

My memory only serves up ...

-Beowulf's Biological Survey Crew (BSC)
-Solarian Gendermerie.
-The Royal Manticoran Marine Corp (RMMC)
-The Grayson Space Marine Corp (GSMC). I simply had to include a Corps with an elite special battalion called the Orbit Dogs.

Did I miss any? And who is the baddest of the lot?


-------------

With my earlier post of dropping the Solarian Gendermerie, I would add Grayson Armsmen (and Armswomen) as those no one wants to mess with in the performance of their duties.
(multiple examples)

-- Stewart
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SharkHunter   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:27 am

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stewart wrote:
cthia wrote:I'm trying to determine the baddest of the baddest of the anal orifices that side of the Pecos.

My memory only serves up ...

-Beowulf's Biological Survey Crew (BSC)
-Solarian Gendermerie.
-The Royal Manticoran Marine Corp (RMMC)
-The Grayson Space Marine Corp (GSMC). I simply had to include a Corps with an elite special battalion called the Orbit Dogs.

Did I miss any? And who is the baddest of the lot?

-------------
With my earlier post of dropping the Solarian Gendermerie, I would add Grayson Armsmen (and Armswomen) as those no one wants to mess with in the performance of their duties.
(multiple examples)
-- Stewart
In terms of the most dangerous, I think I'd stick with the RMMC, because -- while we hear that the Solarian Marines are elite, they've also been tasked with a whole host of s---ty jobs for OFS governors, etc., and at some point the upper echelon has to sign off on the -dogs being used that way. Soviet Spetnaz troops were undoubtedly elite, but were used for totalitarion purposes. I'd wager my money on a well trained US Marine unit against them in any crunch, because of how those young men have each other's backs and will instantly step up into the "protect boots" no matter the cost.

That said, I'll admit to seeing the RMMC through the eyes of someone who is currently writing a novel about the WW2 Army Rangers, British SIS trained commando, and the Somalia era Rangers and Navy Seal types, so I'm a bit biased towards the services with higher levels of respect and dignity towards people simply because it's right.
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All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by kzt   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:38 am

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The question is not really very useful. In what role?

It's like going to SEAL team 6 and, because you have heard they are really tough, assigning them to hold an airfield against a BMP equipped Motor Rifle Regiment, including the tank battalion and artillery battalion. Good luck with that.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by n7axw   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:25 am

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kzt wrote:The question is not really very useful. In what role?

It's like going to SEAL team 6 and, because you have heard they are really tough, assigning them to hold an airfield against a BMP equipped Motor Rifle Regiment, including the tank battalion and artillery battalion. Good luck with that.


You have valid point. However the point of the discussion is that all of these groups are filled with well trained, very, very dangerous people. I, for one, would just as soon stay out of their way when they go into nasty mode. :lol:

I see no reason to believe that a Soviet elite group would fail to watch each other's backs. However laudable or dispicable of a political system they might represent, that's basic human nature. It's the way its been for as long as you have had soldiers and it's the way it's always gonna be.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Fox2!   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:36 am

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Among the Baddest of the Bad:

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