Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:Did Manticore maintain use-option of the Erewhon terminus in war time?

I don't know of any textev on this question. It wasn't an issue, in any case, since Haven was not interested in attacking Erewhon, and Manticore was not interested in launching attacks from Erewhon. Erewhon was too far from the field of battle.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:Did Manticore maintain use-option of the Erewhon terminus in war time?

I don't know of any textev on this question. It wasn't an issue, in any case, since Haven was not interested in attacking Erewhon, and Manticore was not interested in launching attacks from Erewhon. Erewhon was too far from the field of battle.

Yeah, Erewhon is way off to the side.
I believe Manticoran merchant ships could use it's wormhole junction to quickly access more of the league, and if Haven had ever started moving towards it I'm sure Manticore could have used the wormholes to quickly move ships to reenforce it.

But until they started the deep raids in the 2nd war (after Erewhon was neutral) it looks like it just too far from the major theater to be a good jumping off point for Alliance operations against Haven. Or at least we never heard of any activity out that way.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:I would be interested in seeing textev that demonstrates your point about the keyholes having defenses of their own, apart from their function in providing control channels for MDMs and CM missiles. You could be right on this one. Rather than arguing, I am just trying to further my education.

see HOS for one example:

House of Steel
Nike Battlecruiser description wrote:Above all other design elements, the addition of the Mark 20 Keyhole platform to the Nike class allows it a greater level of tactical flexibility than any other warship currently in service. This costs a tremendous amount of mass and creates interesting problems (which some commentators describe as weaknesses) in the armor system. But those costs buy the ability to tether the platforms outside the wedge, which, coupled with the off-bore missile launchers, makes Nike the one of the first warships that can fight an entire engagement with her wedge to the enemy. The telemetry repeaters allow full control of both missiles and counter-missiles, and the platforms’ onboard point defenses thicken defensive fire. In addition, the Keyhole platform can act as a “handoff” relay, allowing a Nike to coordinate offensive and defensive missile control for another ship while both keep their wedges to the threat. This flexibility has resulted in vastly increased computational complexity in offensive and defensive engagement programming and helps to explain much of the class’ survivability.

Keyhole platforms don't mount CM launchers of their own, so that is a defense that has to be built-in to the support module of a Mycroft, but the PDLCs are part of the Kehole platform.

Hi Harold and Jonathan S,

Thanks to both of you for the info. I'd seen that one from HOS before and looked over the top of it. That survivability info dump was highly informative.

Don

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:Did Manticore maintain use-option of the Erewhon terminus in war time?

I don't know of any textev on this question. It wasn't an issue, in any case, since Haven was not interested in attacking Erewhon, and Manticore was not interested in launching attacks from Erewhon. Erewhon was too far from the field of battle.

Johnathan_S wrote:Yeah, Erewhon is way off to the side.
I believe Manticoran merchant ships could use it's wormhole junction to quickly access more of the league, and if Haven had ever started moving towards it I'm sure Manticore could have used the wormholes to quickly move ships to reenforce it.

But until they started the deep raids in the 2nd war (after Erewhon was neutral) it looks like it just too far from the major theater to be a good jumping off point for Alliance operations against Haven. Or at least we never heard of any activity out that way.

One thing I've been wondering throughout the Erewhon discussion is whether Manticore bothered closing the Erewhon junction along with all of the others. Perhaps the Erewhon junction represents little tactical benefit, but Manticore is also concerned with shutting down the supply/flow of goods. Which begs legal considerations regarding Erewhon.

cthia wrote:One thing I've been wondering throughout the Erewhon discussion is whether Manticore bothered closing the Erewhon junction along with all of the others. Perhaps the Erewhon junction represents little tactical benefit, but Manticore is also concerned with shutting down the supply/flow of goods. Which begs legal considerations regarding Erewhon.

Are you talking about during the First War, when Erewhon was allied with Manticore, or during the Second War, when Erewhon was neutral, or during the current Case Lacoon?

During the First War, certainly--traffic to Haven was not permitted through the Erewhon Junction. There is text about Haven being upset over the loss of that somewhat shorter access to their friends in Solarian space.

During the Second War, certainly not. Erewhon was a declared neutral.

During Case Lacoon, we don't know. The Sasebo Terminus in the Solarian League would certainly be a good target. But seizing the Junction would also cause problems with Erewhon, who is a potential secret ally. It is an interesting unanswered question. I would guess the answer is no, simply based on the fact that we haven't heard anything, but it is a pure guess.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:One thing I've been wondering throughout the Erewhon discussion is whether Manticore bothered closing the Erewhon junction along with all of the others. Perhaps the Erewhon junction represents little tactical benefit, but Manticore is also concerned with shutting down the supply/flow of goods. Which begs legal considerations regarding Erewhon.

Are you talking about during the First War, when Erewhon was allied with Manticore, or during the Second War, when Erewhon was neutral, or during the current Case Lacoon?

During the First War, certainly--traffic to Haven was not permitted through the Erewhon Junction. There is text about Haven being upset over the loss of that somewhat shorter access to their friends in Solarian space.

During the Second War, certainly not. Erewhon was a declared neutral.

During Case Lacoon, we don't know. The Sasebo Terminus in the Solarian League would certainly be a good target. But seizing the Junction would also cause problems with Erewhon, who is a potential secret ally. It is an interesting unanswered question. I would guess the answer is no, simply based on the fact that we haven't heard anything, but it is a pure guess.

I think the first two are obvious. Indeed, I was considering the current Case Lacoon. Which is very interesting. Could be used to move supplies by the League - trade, etc., if it isn't shut down.

I should have stated it clearly. Apology.

Here is an account of an email my 13-yr-old niece sent to me. It's a rather humorous - yet poignant, consideration that we may not have fully appreciated, as to why humans might wish to push treecat consumption of purple thorn or genengineer something differently...

Hi Uncle,
You had better make my next recital!

I was informed by the grapevine how funny some of the threads have become. It is hilarious. Curiously missing from the purple thorn vs. celery discussion is a certain detail. Namely...

We might need to consider the POV of the implications of a treecat's person, who has to contend with their treecat consuming large amounts of difficult to digest celery.

Difficult to digest foods produce exorbitant amounts of gas. And the expulsion vector of a treecat - sitting atop their human's shoulders, places it perilously close to one's olfactory organ, creating a baptism by fire.

If you have a treecat perched on your shoulder, you'd much rather they have more of a, hmm, less malodorous emissions spectrum.

We really wouldn't want a treecat's biological processes to surprise us, by converting gases into its liquid form producing a variation of SOS.

Shit on a Shoulder.

Because anything else, is uncivilized.

–Tierney

Don't know about you, but I nearly choked on my lunch.


.

quote="cthia"]
One thing I've been wondering throughout the Erewhon discussion is whether Manticore bothered closing the Erewhon junction along with all of the others. Perhaps the Erewhon junction represents little tactical benefit, but Manticore is also concerned with shutting down the supply/flow of goods. Which begs legal considerations regarding Erewhon.[/quote]

cthia wrote:I think the first two are obvious. Indeed, I was considering the current Case Lacoon. Which is very interesting. Could be used to move supplies by the League - trade, etc., if it isn't shut down.

I should have stated it clearly. Apology.

After Haven joined them in the Grand Alliance one or both may have asked Erewhon to prevent Solarian traffic through it's junction. On the other hand they may have allowed it to continue to preserve Erewhon's "friendly neutrality" towards the Maya sector (which doesn't want it's cover an a future breakaway sector exposed).

And without the interconnects to the Manticoran wormhole the Erewhon junction isn't all that useful for League traffic.


But IIRC Lacoon kicked off before Haven joined. Attempting to forcibly close the wormhole then would almost certainly have been considered and offensive act of war that would trigger the defensive treaty between Haven and Erewhon. Plus of course being a further insult to a former ally. On the one hand Haven and Manticore were already at war - so maybe that treaty isn't a huge deterrent. But even then they probably don't want Erewhon joining in with Haven.



My best guess is that they left it alone and it's still open to League traffic even now. (Though I'd guess that might change once Maya goes public - but it'd be Erewhon's decision, not something Manticore or Haven pressured them to do)

cthia wrote:Here is an account of an email my 13-yr-old niece sent to me. It's a rather humorous - yet poignant, consideration that we may not have fully appreciated, as to why humans might wish to push treecat consumption of purple thorn or genengineer something differently...

Hi Uncle,
You had better make my next recital!

I was informed by the grapevine how funny some of the threads have become. It is hilarious. Curiously missing from the purple thorn vs. celery discussion is a certain detail. Namely...

We might need to consider the POV of the implications of a treecat's person, who has to contend with their treecat consuming large amounts of difficult to digest celery.

Difficult to digest foods produce exorbitant amounts of gas. And the expulsion vector of a treecat - sitting atop their human's shoulders, places it perilously close to one's olfactory organ, creating a baptism by fire.

If you have a treecat perched on your shoulder, you'd much rather they have more of a, hmm, less malodorous emissions spectrum.

We really wouldn't want a treecat's biological processes to surprise us, by converting gases into its liquid form producing a variation of SOS.

Shit on a Shoulder.

Because anything else, is uncivilized.

–Tierney

Don't know about you, but I nearly choked on my lunch.


.

Actually, I believe this is mentioned briefly in the text--there is a reason Honor calls Nimitz Stinker!

cthia wrote:Here is an account of an email my 13-yr-old niece sent to me. It's a rather humorous - yet poignant, consideration that we may not have fully appreciated, as to why humans might wish to push treecat consumption of purple thorn or genengineer something differently...

Hi Uncle,
You had better make my next recital!

I was informed by the grapevine how funny some of the threads have become. It is hilarious. Curiously missing from the purple thorn vs. celery discussion is a certain detail. Namely...

We might need to consider the POV of the implications of a treecat's person, who has to contend with their treecat consuming large amounts of difficult to digest celery.

Difficult to digest foods produce exorbitant amounts of gas. And the expulsion vector of a treecat - sitting atop their human's shoulders, places it perilously close to one's olfactory organ, creating a baptism by fire.

If you have a treecat perched on your shoulder, you'd much rather they have more of a, hmm, less malodorous emissions spectrum.

We really wouldn't want a treecat's biological processes to surprise us, by converting gases into its liquid form producing a variation of SOS.

Shit on a Shoulder.

Because anything else, is uncivilized.

–Tierney

Don't know about you, but I nearly choked on my lunch.


.

SWM wrote: Actually, I believe this is mentioned briefly in the text--there is a reason Honor calls Nimitz Stinker!

Well, it's certainly obvious to me now! Although, I can't say that I actually made the connection without this email.

I recall it being asked why Nimitz is called Stinker in another thread w/o an answer. After researching the forums, it was "bunyipbelle," second post on page.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6219&p=160209&hilit=why+is+nimitz+called+stinker#p160209