HMS Duke of Cromarty

SharkHunter wrote:

kzt" quote="SharkHunter wrote:The textev about the ability to deploy off planet almost definitely means that an amount of that battle armor, heavy transport, etc. are permanently attached to the HMS Duke of Cromarty. Bottom line is that nobody messes with the House of Winston without getting severely dead, right?

No, it means it is available and attached t oteh unit. BCs are not designed to transport masses of AFVs, or any AFVs for that matter. You can't get things that large out of the boats in the boat bay.

True, I wasn't thinking of AFV's, just attack shuttles, pinnaces, plus at least part of a battalion's armor if the ship is going to be any distance from Manticore. For example, if the Cromarty were somehow about to be taken out, I'd think that they'd want plenty of assault capability "on planet", and to get the Royals down, then defend them, like the Tiberon experience. Given that CL-56 had three companies, it seems reasonable to include at least that level or more aboard a ship roughly 20x the size.[/quote]


Old CL's like the fearless carried a single company of marines. This is how many marines each ship type carried in the older ships

DD 1 platoon 1 squad with BA
CL 1 company each platoon with squad of BA
CA 1 battalion of 3 companies each company with platoon of BA
BC 1 battalion of 4 companies each company with platoon of BA
SD and DN 1 battalion with 1 assault company

Newer ships carry fewer marines and probably carry.

DD none
CL UNK but probably 1 platoon
CA 1 company
BC 2 companies
CLAC 1 company but have the life support to carry 1 battalion extra
SD 1 battalion of 3 companies

The larger ships would also carry support craft like assault shuttles capable of dropping the entire marine unit in a single drop.

saber964 wrote:Old CL's like the fearless carried a single company of marines....

Newer ships carry fewer marines and probably carry.
...
BC 2 companies
...
SD 1 battalion of 3 companies

The larger ships would also carry support craft like assault shuttles capable of dropping the entire marine unit in a single drop.

Oops! Correction appreciated, I was thinking platoons, and didn't look it up. Most of my readings (WWII & later) dealt with squad level or company level battle actions, and I completely forgot the unit in the middle.

Bottom line is that I'm thinking that a reconfigured Aggie would likely reserve enough space for the King/Queens own to embarked at least double CL-56's contingent, including full armor.

saber964 wrote:"SharkHunter"]"kzt" "SharkHunter"]

The textev about the ability to deploy off planet almost definitely means that an amount of that battle armor, heavy transport, etc. are permanently attached to the HMS Duke of Cromarty. Bottom line is that nobody messes with the House of Winston without getting severely dead, right?

No, it means it is available and attached t oteh unit. BCs are not designed to transport masses of AFVs, or any AFVs for that matter. You can't get things that large out of the boats in the boat bay.[/quote]True, I wasn't thinking of AFV's, just attack shuttles, pinnaces, plus at least part of a battalion's armor if the ship is going to be any distance from Manticore. For example, if the Cromarty were somehow about to be taken out, I'd think that they'd want plenty of assault capability "on planet", and to get the Royals down, then defend them, like the Tiberon experience. Given that CL-56 had three companies, it seems reasonable to include at least that level or more aboard a ship roughly 20x the size.[/quote]


Old CL's like the fearless carried a single company of marines. This is how many marines each ship type carried in the older ships

DD 1 platoon 1 squad with BA
CL 1 company each platoon with squad of BA
CA 1 battalion of 3 companies each company with platoon of BA
BC 1 battalion of 4 companies each company with platoon of BA
SD and DN 1 battalion with 1 assault company

Newer ships carry fewer marines and probably carry.

DD none
CL UNK but probably 1 platoon
CA 1 company
BC 2 companies
CLAC 1 company but have the life support to carry 1 battalion extra
SD 1 battalion of 3 companies

The larger ships would also carry support craft like assault shuttles capable of dropping the entire marine unit in a single drop.[/quote]

--------------

Shark / Sabre, et alia --

I suspect that along with space for the Queen's pinnace and likely 2 or 3 back-up armored pinnaces, the DofC's boat bay(s) likely has space for probably 20 sting ships (these should not take much room), and possibly 6 special-configured assault shuttles as heavy escort for the Queens pinnace if needed.
Lessons learned from Blackbird

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:
Shark / Sabre, et alia --

I suspect that along with space for the Queen's pinnace and likely 2 or 3 back-up armored pinnaces, the DofC's boat bay(s) likely has space for probably 20 sting ships (these should not take much room), and possibly 6 special-configured assault shuttles as heavy escort for the Queens pinnace if needed.
Lessons learned from Blackbird

-- Stewart

Nope. As of now (until or unless any changes are given to me to make), this image shows the current configuration of the DoC's boat bays:

http://maxxqbunine.deviantart.com/art/A ... -487153566

It's difficult to tell from that angle, but there are 4 pinnaces and 2 cutters docked. There is space for 6 more pinnace-sized or smaller small craft available. Assault shuttles are roughly twice the size of a pinnace (maybe somewhat smaller than that, but not much) and there is no room to dock them in the Aggie's boat bay.

There *is* an optional, heavily-armed version of the standard pinnace that BuNine has discussed, but we haven't gone beyond the discussion stage. We have *not* discussed whether said pinnaces are also modified with heavier armor. Of course, if the RMN is capable of modifying a BC, I'm sure they would have no problem with modifying a few pinnaces for "guard duty" for HRH Liz3.

The boat bays for an Agamemnon cannot be made wider, as they are currently as wide as possible while allowing a corridor on either side before encountering the hull curvature. They cannot be made deeper because there's no room left below the pod bay.

It's *possible* to dock a couple assault shuttles lengthwise, but that would take up two docking positions for each assault shuttle, and the personnel and cargo tubes are not set up for that sort of thing, so transfers would need to be done as EVA's. In the configuration shown in the above image, you can fit a maximum of 3 assault shuttles, with no space left for anything else. Remove the small craft shown in the image, and you can get up to 5 in there.

Stingships can, AFAIK, only operate in space suborbitally, and are primarily atmospheric craft. That would make them pretty much useless for defense of the ship.

MaxxQ wrote:Stingships can, AFAIK, only operate in space suborbitally, and are primarily atmospheric craft. That would make them pretty much useless for defense of the ship.

David stated somewhere that they are much more capable of long range than they go, but there are utilization agreements that limit what they do. Can't remember any discussion of armament on these anywhere.

MaxxQ wrote:

stewart wrote:
Shark / Sabre, et alia --

I suspect that along with space for the Queen's pinnace and likely 2 or 3 back-up armored pinnaces, the DofC's boat bay(s) likely has space for probably 20 sting ships (these should not take much room), and possibly 6 special-configured assault shuttles as heavy escort for the Queens pinnace if needed.
Lessons learned from Blackbird

-- Stewart

Nope. As of now (until or unless any changes are given to me to make), this image shows the current configuration of the DoC's boat bays:

http://maxxqbunine.deviantart.com/art/A ... -487153566

It's difficult to tell from that angle, but there are 4 pinnaces and 2 cutters docked. There is space for 6 more pinnace-sized or smaller small craft available. Assault shuttles are roughly twice the size of a pinnace (maybe somewhat smaller than that, but not much) and there is no room to dock them in the Aggie's boat bay.

There *is* an optional, heavily-armed version of the standard pinnace that BuNine has discussed, but we haven't gone beyond the discussion stage. We have *not* discussed whether said pinnaces are also modified with heavier armor. Of course, if the RMN is capable of modifying a BC, I'm sure they would have no problem with modifying a few pinnaces for "guard duty" for HRH Liz3.

The boat bays for an Agamemnon cannot be made wider, as they are currently as wide as possible while allowing a corridor on either side before encountering the hull curvature. They cannot be made deeper because there's no room left below the pod bay.

It's *possible* to dock a couple assault shuttles lengthwise, but that would take up two docking positions for each assault shuttle, and the personnel and cargo tubes are not set up for that sort of thing, so transfers would need to be done as EVA's. In the configuration shown in the above image, you can fit a maximum of 3 assault shuttles, with no space left for anything else. Remove the small craft shown in the image, and you can get up to 5 in there.

Stingships can, AFAIK, only operate in space suborbitally, and are primarily atmospheric craft. That would make them pretty much useless for defense of the ship.

What QEIII uses for a pinnacle is probably something like what HH used in FiE. Think of a honorees version of Air Force One which IIRC carries about 120-150 passengers and crew vs a regular 747 350-450 passengers. Plus the queen is never going any where without an advance team already in place and set up and ready to go. Also when ever the POTUS goes overseas he travels with at least two C-5's worth of equipment and one C-5 domesticaly.

MaxxQ wrote:

stewart wrote:
Shark / Sabre, et alia --

I suspect that along with space for the Queen's pinnace and likely 2 or 3 back-up armored pinnaces, the DofC's boat bay(s) likely has space for probably 20 sting ships (these should not take much room), and possibly 6 special-configured assault shuttles as heavy escort for the Queens pinnace if needed.
Lessons learned from Blackbird

-- Stewart

Nope. As of now (until or unless any changes are given to me to make), this image shows the current configuration of the DoC's boat bays:

http://maxxqbunine.deviantart.com/art/A ... -487153566

It's difficult to tell from that angle, but there are 4 pinnaces and 2 cutters docked. There is space for 6 more pinnace-sized or smaller small craft available. Assault shuttles are roughly twice the size of a pinnace (maybe somewhat smaller than that, but not much) and there is no room to dock them in the Aggie's boat bay.

There *is* an optional, heavily-armed version of the standard pinnace that BuNine has discussed, but we haven't gone beyond the discussion stage. We have *not* discussed whether said pinnaces are also modified with heavier armor. Of course, if the RMN is capable of modifying a BC, I'm sure they would have no problem with modifying a few pinnaces for "guard duty" for HRH Liz3.

The boat bays for an Agamemnon cannot be made wider, as they are currently as wide as possible while allowing a corridor on either side before encountering the hull curvature. They cannot be made deeper because there's no room left below the pod bay.

It's *possible* to dock a couple assault shuttles lengthwise, but that would take up two docking positions for each assault shuttle, and the personnel and cargo tubes are not set up for that sort of thing, so transfers would need to be done as EVA's. In the configuration shown in the above image, you can fit a maximum of 3 assault shuttles, with no space left for anything else. Remove the small craft shown in the image, and you can get up to 5 in there.

Stingships can, AFAIK, only operate in space suborbitally, and are primarily atmospheric craft. That would make them pretty much useless for defense of the ship.

---------------

Nice to have inside knowledge not yet in textev.

-- Stewart

MaxxQ wrote:

stewart wrote:
Shark / Sabre, et alia --

I suspect that along with space for the Queen's pinnace and likely 2 or 3 back-up armored pinnaces, the DofC's boat bay(s) likely has space for probably 20 sting ships (these should not take much room), and possibly 6 special-configured assault shuttles as heavy escort for the Queens pinnace if needed.
Lessons learned from Blackbird

-- Stewart

Nope. As of now (until or unless any changes are given to me to make), this image shows the current configuration of the DoC's boat bays:

http://maxxqbunine.deviantart.com/art/A ... -487153566

It's difficult to tell from that angle, but there are 4 pinnaces and 2 cutters docked. There is space for 6 more pinnace-sized or smaller small craft available. Assault shuttles are roughly twice the size of a pinnace (maybe somewhat smaller than that, but not much) and there is no room to dock them in the Aggie's boat bay.

There *is* an optional, heavily-armed version of the standard pinnace that BuNine has discussed, but we haven't gone beyond the discussion stage. We have *not* discussed whether said pinnaces are also modified with heavier armor. Of course, if the RMN is capable of modifying a BC, I'm sure they would have no problem with modifying a few pinnaces for "guard duty" for HRH Liz3.

The boat bays for an Agamemnon cannot be made wider, as they are currently as wide as possible while allowing a corridor on either side before encountering the hull curvature. They cannot be made deeper because there's no room left below the pod bay.

It's *possible* to dock a couple assault shuttles lengthwise, but that would take up two docking positions for each assault shuttle, and the personnel and cargo tubes are not set up for that sort of thing, so transfers would need to be done as EVA's. In the configuration shown in the above image, you can fit a maximum of 3 assault shuttles, with no space left for anything else. Remove the small craft shown in the image, and you can get up to 5 in there.

Stingships can, AFAIK, only operate in space suborbitally, and are primarily atmospheric craft. That would make them pretty much useless for defense of the ship.

I had the random thought that you could presumably made cargo containers eith pod dimensions and connections. That could allow you to use part of the pod bay for extra storage. You might even, depending on how the rails were set up build one that was multiple pod lengthy long.

Now there are downsides, not least of which is even further reducing the ammo capacity - which Aggies were low in before the mods to turn one into the royal yacht. And the pod shuffling needed to load them (presumably you'd want to store them as far forward as possible to keep your actual missile pods in position to be rolled), and later unload them would be a pain.

(Then even if you did I don't know if you could pack a sting ship into one. But if you could that could be a (probably not worth it) way of organically transporting them to be shuttled down and deployed planetside to provide security for when the Queen later follows them down.

I know it's a bit off-topic, but I always wonder - if Manticore has a district named Cromarty, does it also have Fairisle, Forth and Forties? What about Dogger, Wight and the others?

Cheers
John
PS: scroll down if you don't recognise what I'm talking about














UK Shipping Forecast areas

Been thinking about a question, may be answered elsewhere, but I haven't found it yet, and yes I read the Infodump, which shows that the HMS Duke of Cromarty is about as adequately protected as a single ship can be. That also specifically expresses that the Cromarty's goal is not to stand and fight but to be able to launch sufficient missile salvo(s) to allow it to "run away".

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/248/1

Anyway, back to my question: the Aggies have Keyhole, but does Keyhole totally preclude limpeted pods? Given that the pod layers kick their salvos out the back of the wedge, and that's how both the off-bore and "limpeted pod salvo" seem to work, wouldn't an Aggie or any -(p) be able to greatly increase it's salvo capacity with limpeted pods? A Sag C, for example can limpet 40 pods, a Nike 80 pods.