Tiny tech questions...

So we all ponder the imponderable big tech, like impellers, missiles, Warshaski sails, and the like, and the microscopic bits like nanotech assassin technology, prolong, etc.

How about middle size-y HonorVerse handwavium technology... I'll start:

Given that we know Honor has both an aiming reticle /camera built into her hidden pulser, and is an excellent shot anyway... at what range does she miss, or is it at a range that is the equivalent of a 20th/21st Century sniper?

Off the cuff ... if we accept as a given the aforesaid camera/aiming aspects of Honor's eye, etc., range would only be limited by how far a pulser dart actually flies in a straight line downrange before gravity takes over.

Any clue as to how far a pulse dart goes in a straight line? I don't remember that being mentioned in a book somewhere ...

warspite1515 wrote:Off the cuff ... if we accept as a given the aforesaid camera/aiming aspects of Honor's eye, etc., range would only be limited by how far a pulser dart actually flies in a straight line downrange before gravity takes over.

Any clue as to how far a pulse dart goes in a straight line? I don't remember that being mentioned in a book somewhere ...

Gravity "takes over" as soon as it leaves the barrel. As soon as a round is in flight, it describes a parabola with it's motion, going first up a little, then dropping back down. Knowing the muzzle velocity, the angle the barrel was when fired, and local gravity, you know exactly the shape that parabola should make. You than have to make adjustments for things like air pressure, wind, humidity, and terrain. Over shot distances those factors are more or less negligible, but they start to become more noticeable after about 300 meters. Then, at longer distances, an unfinned round will loose its spin, and become more susceptible to variances, and therefore less predictable.

Also, there are several different definitions of "range" when referring to weapons. Definitions from Wikipedia:
-Effective range of a firearm is the maximum distance at which a weapon may be expected to be accurate and achieve the desired effect.
-Horizontal range is the distance traveled by a bullet, fired from the rifle at a height of 1.6 meters and 0° elevation, until the bullet hits the ground.
-Lethal range is the maximum range of a small-arms projectile, while still maintaining the minimum energy required to put a man out of action, which is generally believed to be 15 kilogram-meters (108 ft.-Ibs.).
-Maximum range of a small-arms projectile is attained at about 30° elevation. This maximum range is only of safety interest, not for combat firing.

Honor's finger's effective range would depend on several factors. Is the aiming retical at a perminant spot on the finger camera, or is it adjusted by a computer? If it is perminant, what range is it set for? If it adjusted, how advanced is the computer? What shape are the rounds? If it is very long range, has Honor taken any sniper courses?

If I was designing the prosthetic, I would probably try for a couple hundred meters effective range and settle for 100m if I had to, and I would run the camera through a computer that can do simple adjustments for range. It is not designed to be a sniper rifle, but a weapon of last resort in case Honor finds herself (again) in a dangerous position.

crewdude48 wrote:If I was designing the prosthetic, I would probably try for a couple hundred meters effective range and settle for 100m if I had to, and I would run the camera through a computer that can do simple adjustments for range. It is not designed to be a sniper rifle, but a weapon of last resort in case Honor finds herself (again) in a dangerous position.

Given the kind of technology built into that finger and that eye, is there any penalty to its utility at pistol ranges for being useful also as far out as, say, the dart starts getting really wobbly and inherently inaccurate? If the only cost there is at the investment end and not the use one, well, Honor had a lot of money to spend and Alfred had a ferocious motivation to equip her as well as possible.

JeffEngel wrote:

crewdude48 wrote:If I was designing the prosthetic, I would probably try for a couple hundred meters effective range and settle for 100m if I had to, and I would run the camera through a computer that can do simple adjustments for range. It is not designed to be a sniper rifle, but a weapon of last resort in case Honor finds herself (again) in a dangerous position.

Given the kind of technology built into that finger and that eye, is there any penalty to its utility at pistol ranges for being useful also as far out as, say, the dart starts getting really wobbly and inherently inaccurate? If the only cost there is at the investment end and not the use one, well, Honor had a lot of money to spend and Alfred had a ferocious motivation to equip her as well as possible.

I'd think it'd be pretty hard to get the stability you'd need for a long distance shot out of what's effectively a snub nosed pistol that's always fired one handed (and usually unbraced).

Honor's standing torso wouldn't provide the kind of rigidity you'd need to brace a long ranged sniper rifle, and the barrel length you can build into a finger shouldn't give the kind of accuracy you'd get out of a 1/2 meter rifle barrel. (Not unless you cheat and the round has course correcting guidance )

[/quote]Given the kind of technology built into that finger and that eye, is there any penalty to its utility at pistol ranges for being useful also as far out as, say, the dart starts getting really wobbly and inherently inaccurate? If the only cost there is at the investment end and not the use one, well, Honor had a lot of money to spend and Alfred had a ferocious motivation to equip her as well as possible.[/quote]
I'd think it'd be pretty hard to get the stability you'd need for a long distance shot out of what's effectively a snub nosed pistol that's always fired one handed (and usually unbraced).

Honor's standing torso wouldn't provide the kind of rigidity you'd need to brace a long ranged sniper rifle, and the barrel length you can build into a finger shouldn't give the kind of accuracy you'd get out of a 1/2 meter rifle barrel. (Not unless you cheat and the round has course correcting guidance )[/quote]

Now THERE's an interesting thought ... how much bracing does that prosthetic have? The thread is focusing on the armament ... but to your point, I wonder if it has the equivalent of a "butt in the shoulder" when her arm is being used as a weapon? We know from AOV and later books she needs to be very careful with it when sparring; so that means there's got to be some serious structural integrity in it's construction.

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Jonathan_S wrote:If I was designing the prosthetic, I would probably try for a couple hundred meters effective range and settle for 100m if I had to, and I would run the camera through a computer that can do simple adjustments for range. It is not designed to be a sniper rifle, but a weapon of last resort in case Honor finds herself (again) in a dangerous position.

JeffEngel wrote:Given the kind of technology built into that finger and that eye, is there any penalty to its utility at pistol ranges for being useful also as far out as, say, the dart starts getting really wobbly and inherently inaccurate? If the only cost there is at the investment end and not the use one, well, Honor had a lot of money to spend and Alfred had a ferocious motivation to equip her as well as possible.

crewdude48 wrote:I'd think it'd be pretty hard to get the stability you'd need for a long distance shot out of what's effectively a snub nosed pistol that's always fired one handed (and usually unbraced).

Honor's standing torso wouldn't provide the kind of rigidity you'd need to brace a long ranged sniper rifle, and the barrel length you can build into a finger shouldn't give the kind of accuracy you'd get out of a 1/2 meter rifle barrel. (Not unless you cheat and the round has course correcting guidance )

Just to keep the conversation going, I'm going to argue the range bits as follows:

1) Honor's from a high-gravity planet, and she is a Meyerdahl Beta genie. That plus the rigidity of her artificial arm should provide plenty of bracing. 2) Hand pulsers aren't chemical burners like her pistol, ergo little or no recoil. 3) as opposed to a pistol bullet, the hypervelocity "darts" would already have to be extremely aerodynamic and the combination of shape plus velocity would keep the round's rate of drop or tumble extremely low out to really extended ranges. and 4) The camera in her fingertip is already computer-linked to her eye, so a range correction could be factored in to the reticle as part of the camera's target acquistion routines.

Besides which, we know that Honor is already an excellent shot, consistently putting all of her shots in the "10 ring", or 3 shots very quickly with a "chemical burner" into Pavel Young, or the 5 shots into Denver Summmervale exactly where she intended to around a 25 meter range (30 paces).

Thoughts?

P.S. Feel free to post other bits of "mini-tech" when this bit of the thread gets exhausted.

warspite1515 wrote:

Given the kind of technology built into that finger and that eye, is there any penalty to its utility at pistol ranges for being useful also as far out as, say, the dart starts getting really wobbly and inherently inaccurate? If the only cost there is at the investment end and not the use one, well, Honor had a lot of money to spend and Alfred had a ferocious motivation to equip her as well as possible.[/quote]
I'd think it'd be pretty hard to get the stability you'd need for a long distance shot out of what's effectively a snub nosed pistol that's always fired one handed (and usually unbraced).

Honor's standing torso wouldn't provide the kind of rigidity you'd need to brace a long ranged sniper rifle, and the barrel length you can build into a finger shouldn't give the kind of accuracy you'd get out of a 1/2 meter rifle barrel. (Not unless you cheat and the round has course correcting guidance )[/quote]

Now THERE's an interesting thought ... how much bracing does that prosthetic have? The thread is focusing on the armament ... but to your point, I wonder if it has the equivalent of a "butt in the shoulder" when her arm is being used as a weapon? We know from AOV and later books she needs to be very careful with it when sparring; so that means there's got to be some serious structural integrity in it's construction.[/quote]


Structural integrity reminds me of the OLD tv series called the "Million Dollar Man". One particular episode had Steve a.k.a bionic man stop a tree from falling. He braced with his bionic legs and held up his bionic arm to stop this hugemongus tree from falling on him. The problem was that between the bionic legs and arm was very weak flesh and blood.

A weapon in a bionic arm is only as good as the weakest link; the flesh, bones, and blood body. Just my thought. Great thread!!!

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Senior Chief wrote:Structural integrity reminds me of the OLD tv series called the "Million Dollar Man". One particular episode had Steve a.k.a bionic man stop a tree from falling. He braced with his bionic legs and held up his bionic arm to stop this hugemongus tree from falling on him. The problem was that between the bionic legs and arm was very weak flesh and blood.

A weapon in a bionic arm is only as good as the weakest link; the flesh, bones, and blood body. Just my thought. Great thread!!!

I had to laugh at myself because I watched that TV series as a kid, and never thought about the spinal crush, etc. Suspension of disbelief, eh?

BTW I didn't include it in the original question, but I wasn't thinking about Honor's reflexive snap shot, I'm talking about a very deliberately aimed shot. Maybe testing it out, etc. to see what it can do.

That said, this particular unaltered human (AKA none of Honor's enhanced Meyerdahl musculature vs. 1.37G gravity strong muscles, cybernetic eye and arm, etc.) can hit a human size target from standing position on most days with a .308 and a scope at about 200 meters, some days further out, and I don't consider myself an outstanding shot, which Honor is supposed to be.

That's not .50 caliber 1000+ meter sniper range, of course, which has always required a mounted gun or prone positioning, but then again, if the grav driver in the pulser eliminates the recoil, it's more the ballistics and aerodynamics of the "dart" (which I think is probably shaped like a very small caliber but very heavy bullet) that control the trajectory and kill range.

SharkHunter wrote:BTW I didn't include it in the original question, but I wasn't thinking about Honor's reflexive snap shot, I'm talking about a very deliberately aimed shot. Maybe testing it out, etc. to see what it can do.

That said, this particular unaltered human (AKA none of Honor's enhanced Meyerdahl musculature vs. 1.37G gravity strong muscles, cybernetic eye and arm, etc.) can hit a human size target from standing position on most days with a .308 and a scope at about 200 meters, some days further out, and I don't consider myself an outstanding shot, which Honor is supposed to be.

That's not .50 caliber 1000+ meter sniper range, of course, which has always required a mounted gun or prone positioning, but then again, if the grav driver in the pulser eliminates the recoil, it's more the ballistics and aerodynamics of the "dart" (which I think is probably shaped like a very small caliber but very heavy bullet) that control the trajectory and kill range.

Pulser pistols have a muzzle velocity of 2000 m/sec, versus about 800 m/sec for a .308, so it's going to go quite a bit further per unit drop. The darts are 3mm caliber; I too assume they're more or less bullet shaped, but as "darts" may be a bit narrower in proportion.

Recoil isn't much, and while RoboHonor, with everything below the neck replaced with prosthetics, may have even less problems handling it than arm-and-eye-upgraded Honor, I doubt it's much trouble for her.

As a rough approximation, if she can see it and it's not armored, it continues to live solely under her sufferance.