Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

Torlek wrote:snip
They would be just to expensive to run. I mean you could put a number former SLN SDs in service and cannibalize the others for spare parts. But why would you do it. You could instead buy the export version of a Manty battle cruiser (if no Manty shipyards are available Erewhon Adamanti or any number of current/former Manty allies could also help you). While the initial cost should be higher, you get more combat power, lower running cost and an existing source for new spare parts.

The whole discussion about finding an use for these SDs is a prime example of the sunk cost fallacy.

Amen. Sometimes the best thing to do is just cut your losses, and throw them away.

Torlek wrote:The whole discussion about finding an use for these SDs is a prime example of the sunk cost fallacy.

No, it's because there is a bottleneck in production. If your option is learning how to use mediocre mostly obsolete hardware that will likely be able to stop the average pirate from moving in and taking over your planet or prayer, which are you choosing?

kzt wrote:No, it's because there is a bottleneck in production. If your option is learning how to use mediocre mostly obsolete hardware that will likely be able to stop the average pirate from moving in and taking over your planet or prayer, which are you choosing?

The production bottleneck for the RMN is on the munitions side, not the platform one. They don't really need more ships, they need enough ammo to keep the ones they have supplied. As for non-Grand Alliance navies, there are exactly none right now that are available to take over these ships.

As for pirates: You do not need or want SDs to fight them. That's not a role they're good at (in fact, they're utterly abysmal at it).

kzt wrote:

Torlek wrote:The whole discussion about finding an use for these SDs is a prime example of the sunk cost fallacy.

No, it's because there is a bottleneck in production. If your option is learning how to use mediocre mostly obsolete hardware that will likely be able to stop the average pirate from moving in and taking over your planet or prayer, which are you choosing?

KZT, you are disregarding three problems with the SDs, the planets that will want more ships cannot attempt to acquire those currently in GA possession and remain part of the SL. SDs are the wrong ship for pirate swatting (at best a sledgehammer where a flyswatter will do, at worst the pirates fly rings around them). Then there is the issue of can the proposed recipients of the ships man and maintain them?

I suspect that a handfull of the surrendered SDs will be taken by powers friendly to Manticore for destructive testing, with the rest becoming scrap. What most of the soon to be former SL systems need is subwaller units, and the text ev suggests that the reserve fleets are light in these units.

The E wrote:The production bottleneck for the RMN is on the munitions side, not the platform one. They don't really need more ships, they need enough ammo to keep the ones they have supplied. As for non-Grand Alliance navies, there are exactly none right now that are available to take over these ships.

They can't make any more LACs. So no LAC bases. They can't arm any ships in the reserve, so if you can mobilize them (not all all clear) you would be deploying ships with only energy weapons, which have remarkably less range than a SDM.

So what exactly do you propose can be provided? Best wishes?

kzt wrote:

The E wrote:The production bottleneck for the RMN is on the munitions side, not the platform one. They don't really need more ships, they need enough ammo to keep the ones they have supplied. As for non-Grand Alliance navies, there are exactly none right now that are available to take over these ships.

They can't make any more LACs. So no LAC bases. They can't arm any ships in the reserve, so if you can mobilize them (not all all clear) you would be deploying ships with only energy weapons, which have remarkably less range than a SDM.

So what exactly do you propose can be provided? Best wishes?

Hi kzt,

I think you are bored and pulling someone's chain... If so, more power to you!

As for what Manticore lost in the Yawata Strike, all of that will be recovered... extreme outside about four years. And that was before Beowulf started pitching in. Then they will be making LACs and everything else better than ever.

Then, too, I doubt that it will take 4 years to upgrade the quality of Haven's capabilities after which we will see new composite Haven/Manticore designs that will be better than ever.

So don't fall back on this pore ole Manticore is wiped out bit, because it is going to be a very temporary problem.

Don

n7axw wrote:As for what Manticore lost in the Yawata Strike, all of that will be recovered... extreme outside about four years. And that was before Beowulf started pitching in. Then they will be making LACs and everything else better than ever.

Really?

How long does it take to take a college graduate EE to become a lead chip designer for Intel?

Would you consider a guy who was hired off the street qualified to be the lead welder or head of weld QC on a nuclear missile submarine? How much experience do you think is appropriate for those jobs?

Would you like to fly in a jet where the most experienced guy on the design team has less then 4 years and this was the only aircraft they have actually built? This includes the guy building the flight control logic and designing the engines. Would you feel comfortable taking your family on vacation on it?

For every job you can think of, the maximum experience they will have is less then 4 years.

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:As for what Manticore lost in the Yawata Strike, all of that will be recovered... extreme outside about four years. And that was before Beowulf started pitching in. Then they will be making LACs and everything else better than ever.

Really?

How long does it take to take a college graduate EE to become a lead chip designer for Intel?

Would you consider a guy who was hired off the street qualified to be the lead welder or head of weld QC on a nuclear missile submarine? How much experience do you think is appropriate for those jobs?

Would you like to fly in a jet where the most experienced guy on the design team has less then 4 years and this was the only aircraft they have actually built? This includes the guy building the flight control logic and designing the engines. Would you feel comfortable taking your family on vacation on it?

For every job you can think of, the maximum experience they will have is less then 4 years.

Try a min of 10% will have more experience for the simple reason, they were not on the stations when they were destroyed (eg. vacation, TDY). Then there is the crew from the Grendelsbane yard that were in a Havenite POW camp when the stations were destroyed. Add experienced people recruited from the Quadrant, Silesia, Andermani Empire, and Beowulf and the experienced crew members could be as high as 30%

n7axw wrote:As for what Manticore lost in the Yawata Strike, all of that will be recovered... extreme outside about four years. And that was before Beowulf started pitching in. Then they will be making LACs and everything else better than ever.

kzt wrote:Really?

How long does it take to take a college graduate EE to become a lead chip designer for Intel?

Would you consider a guy who was hired off the street qualified to be the lead welder or head of weld QC on a nuclear missile submarine? How much experience do you think is appropriate for those jobs?

Would you like to fly in a jet where the most experienced guy on the design team has less then 4 years and this was the only aircraft they have actually built? This includes the guy building the flight control logic and designing the engines. Would you feel comfortable taking your family on vacation on it?

For every job you can think of, the maximum experience they will have is less then 4 years.

Castenea wrote:Try a min of 10% will have more experience for the simple reason, they were not on the stations when they were destroyed (eg. vacation, TDY). Then there is the crew from the Grendelsbane yard that were in a Havenite POW camp when the stations were destroyed. Add experienced people recruited from the Quadrant, Silesia, Andermani Empire, and Beowulf and the experienced crew members could be as high as 30%

Not to mention the entire crew from Weyland who were down on Gryphon when the strike went in.

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:As for what Manticore lost in the Yawata Strike, all of that will be recovered... extreme outside about four years. And that was before Beowulf started pitching in. Then they will be making LACs and everything else better than ever.

Really?

How long does it take to take a college graduate EE to become a lead chip designer for Intel?

Would you consider a guy who was hired off the street qualified to be the lead welder or head of weld QC on a nuclear missile submarine? How much experience do you think is appropriate for those jobs?

Would you like to fly in a jet where the most experienced guy on the design team has less then 4 years and this was the only aircraft they have actually built? This includes the guy building the flight control logic and designing the engines. Would you feel comfortable taking your family on vacation on it?

For every job you can think of, the maximum experience they will have is less then 4 years.

Using the 10,000 hours rule as a basis, it would indeed take about four years(with very few days off) to train up a new workforce.

But for the first two to three years, expect them to make a lot of mistakes. It may turn out that the "transitional" classes - the Rolands, Sag-Cs, as well as the 'python lump' wallers - are so well built they outlast whatever is produced in those four years ahead for Manticore. Barring enemy action, Buckleyish accidents or another radical technological revolution which ends the missile's usefulness as a weapon, of course.