tonyz wrote:SharkHunter wrote:Logically, why introduce a new ship type (primarily the CL) at all? As fun as it is to think about, wouldn't the RMN just crank out as many Sag-C's as possible for the foreseeable future, augmenting with the Roland DD's, then start rebuilding at the SD(p) level, and thence down to Nike(s)?
Over a 5-7 year span, probably not much new. 4-5 of those years will be involved with rebuilding the stations and shipyards, and (presumably) the building slips will all be designed for max production of the (current) generation of finished designs, which may well be advanced over the Rolands, Nikes, Saganamis, and whatever else is on the list.
I haven't gotten the impression that yards are all that specialized for particular types, beyond some of them being suitable for wallers and others suitable only for variously smaller units. So they should be fairly free to build what they care to once they've got yard slips back online at all.
Manufacturing facilities for various advanced pieces of gear may be another thing, but with massive rebuilding going on anyway, that's likely a drop in the organizational bucket.
But... the RMN needs to think, not just in terms of what is really impressive RIGHT NOW, but what the threat situation is GOING TO BE in 10-20 years when current levels of Manticoran tech, or the equivalent thereof, is widely spread through the Solarian League.
Well - spread through what was the Solarian League. There won't be a League as such in 10 years. But the point is certainly well taken - they've got to aim at building things for an environment in which their technological lead won't likely be as commanding as it is now. But I think that has been at work with the Nike, Roland, and Saganami-C designs at least, insofar as that future environment can be envisioned yet and as much as they can build for it yet. It's more a reminder for us than for BuShips.
RIGHT NOW the GA can massacre the entire Solarian fleet from outside its combat range. Even vulnerable eggshells like the Agamemnons are invincible from outside enemy range. This won't be true once the Solarians figure out how to do MDMs and crack the FTL transmission issue. Knowing how to do a thing is half the battle, and if a neo-barb planet like Grayson can become a Manticoran peer in 20 years or so... then there are a lot of potential places that can become shipbuilding nodes over time.
Manticore has won (so far) by staying far enough ahead its the enemies, and by having mad luck diplomatically (Grayson, Andermani, and now Haven joining them). If they rest on their laurels, other people will catch up.
Plus they KNOW that somebody has invented a totally new drive technology, and what THAT means for warfare has yet to be determined, but you can bet that some people in the ship design offices of several powers are thinking about it, and what they need to do for new ships...
I suspect that the spider drive (and the specific stealth systems the MAN uses on top of it) will be countered with advanced in sensor technology, but that will still mean quite a bit of intense investment in detection and interception systems. Just what and how, it's too early to speculate without very wild WAG's. (Which has not stopped us yet.) Widescale adoption of it for warships is unlikely, when it imposes such terrible speed and design limitations and no sidewalls or wedge for defense. It's likely to shine as a specialist, for use where those detection and interception systems cannot practically be deployed but where useful targets remain. Spider drive recon drones may also see wide use.
An upcoming generation of warships is likelier to use the streak drive. I think it's somewhat larger than a conventional hypergenerator and associated systems, but with the minimum ship sizes getting larger anyway, and hypergenerators not being a devastating burden on their total volume, the higher speeds will be irresistible. The GA has a foot in the door with the streak drive, because (1) I don't think it's nearly so revolutionary as the spider drive, and more importantly (2) the critical insights for it can come from Herlander Simoes.
Multi-drive missiles will be the standard shipkiller, and the newer laserheads will make them all the nastier. Building warships too small to fire them effectively or too fragile to defend against them adequately will end. LAC's will get pushed more into the missile defense, counter-LAC, and picking on obsolescent enemies roles more firmly. The stupendous ranges will make for more system defenses based on pods and missiles than on warships or LAC's - not exclusively, but as the heart of a typical system defense at least. Warships used to find and destroy them will shine, so larger boat bays for more recon drones and some next-generation Mistletoe drones will be required - again pushing smallest warship sizes up.
In general, finding the little stealthy hidden things will keep growing in importance. There may be some more use for LAC's that way, but my suspicions lean toward the new light cruiser / heavy frigate / sloop / thingieship and its recon drones as more likely for that role.
Apollo Lite, with recon drones providing forward FTL observation at least for long range missiles, is likely to be a flat-out standard rather than treated as a trick. The full Keyhole II capabilities aren't likely to get to ships smaller than battlecruisers (though whether that means Nike's or the old BC size range, I don't know - and the old BC size range is the upcoming CA range), but I can certainly see "Keyhole I.V" on the upcoming new light cruisers, with improvements on the Keyhole I short of full Keyhole II. And again, if that takes a larger ship, they're going to use larger ships.
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see more small/parasite craft used for remote missile defense and/or electronic warfare in the higher missile threat environment: something to get the remote LAC missile defense screen writ much smaller for cruisers alone. Apollo Lite for support of long-range counter-missile fire springs to mind as one likely step, especially if Keyhole I.V can help there.
If I'm dwelling on the cruisers a lot here, it's because I expect them to see so much more use, when the enemy will be hidden Mesan Alignment stooges and upstarts across the whole space of the former Solarian League. Wall on wall fleet battles are likely to be far less common then than they have been in the Havenite Wars or even the fighting with the SLN so far, and system defenses are going to lean more on the system defense missile pods and less on their warships.
