Torch frigates?

[...]
Eh, either they have some broadside armament (which the Shrike and Ferret do not have), or they've got off-bore capability. The ships would be death traps without one or the other.

Jonathan_S wrote:

JenBurdoo2 wrote:Just finished Cauldron of Ghosts and am a little confused about the frigates. I have the impression there are two different types -- one that's basically an upgraded LAC and one that's a smaller destroyer. The smaller destroyer is the one I'm interested in. I'm interested in its size and capabilities -- this goes for the older types like those that were used before they became obsolete, too. What were their crew sizes and tonnages? How did they compare to destroyers? What were the ones that founded the Manticoran Navy like? The ones from CoG seem to be large enough to hold shuttles that can hold up to 30 marines, so they sound more "conventional" than the LAC style.

Is a frigate intermediate in size, crew and firepower between a hyper-courier boat and a destroyer?

The Torch frigates we're describe as being somewhat similar to a pair of shrikes back too back, but that's kind of a superficial comparison.

We don't have a lot of details on the older frigates. I get the idea that they were more practical before laserheads. You could afford combatant with minimal missile (and counter missile) storage when even light ships usually needed to close to energy range.

The Call of Dity series talks a small amount about the ships Manticore had back them, but the tech was do different that they're hard to compare. The one semi-modern frigate we gave specs on is the Siliesian Gryf-class. SITS ship book says it's a 1868 design, 53,500 tons, 324m ship. Carries a broadside of 6 tubes, and 1 laser; but it carries only 4 CM tubes and 6 PDLCs total (I assume 1 CM and 2 PDLC on each broadside; and 1 of each for hammerhead chase defense)

Ok the SCN is a crapoy navy, but that seems like a lethally overgunned, under defended design.

SharkHunter wrote:

[...]
Eh, either they have some broadside armament (which the Shrike and Ferret do not have), or they've got off-bore capability. The ships would be death traps without one or the other.

Question, is that true? the older cruisers also had stern and bow missile missile launchers, and with a smaller wedge, I'd think they'd fire forward box launcher salvos like the LACs or sorta missile forward like the PT boats launched torpedoes back in WW-II (?)

JeffEngel wrote:[...]- when you were firing at something that could not fire back anyway;
- or when you would fire the missiles then turn to get the wedge or sidewalls back between you and fire before turning to fire again.

Roguevictory wrote:
Is there some reason why the Gryf page on the wiki was never filled out with the above data or s it just th no one has ever gotten around to doing it?

Jonathan_S wrote:

Roguevictory wrote:
Is there some reason why the Gryf page on the wiki was never filled out with the above data or s it just th no one has ever gotten around to doing it?

Probably mostly because nobody's bothered.
Thought there may be some issue with publicly dumping all the stats from every ship described in the ship books for Ad Astra's Sanagami Island Tactical Simulator game. <shrug>

Jonathan_S wrote:

Roguevictory wrote:
Is there some reason why the Gryf page on the wiki was never filled out with the above data or s it just th no one has ever gotten around to doing it?

Probably mostly because nobody's bothered.
Thought there may be some issue with publicly dumping all the stats from every ship described in the ship books for Ad Astra's Sanagami Island Tactical Simulator game. <shrug>

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:

Theemile wrote:Since they don't have broadside launchers, only bow and stern launchers, it stands to reason that the launchers they do have are off-bore capable. As such, shifting missiles isn't as necessary, since you can still use your oblique launchers in most or all firing conditions (depending on the tech level).

However, Like you, I always read it as they carried extra loads for each launcher, so my intreperation is that they had the Ferret type launcher - if memory serves, David's comment on the Ferrets NOT having the Shrike Rotary launchers was an outgrowth of a Nat Turner armament discussion.

snipped my own remarks, for brevity.

I was thinking from the use of the term "Shrike" in describing the class, that they used rotary launchers in addition to the chase grasers; but I also assumed they mounted 4 sets on the broadsides, to make it act more like an older frigate. Ferret style magazines make a lot more sense, as there will likely be fewer questions about odd-looking shapes.

The frigates were built specifically for the Beowulf-based ASL, but even so, I think off-bore capability was left out; that is one of the major elements of Manticore's missile defense improvements, as well as vital to their new vessels offensive salvos. The frigates being unofficially in the hands of the Ballroom, gives too great a chance of a technology capture by Bad Guys.

I can't recall off-hand--the LAC missiles are a bit smaller than DD missiles--did RFC or Duckk or someone ever give a range estimate? This would have some implications for the use of the frigates with pods--if their fire control is optimized for pre-war SDM ranges, they wouldn't be as capable as a larger ship at, say, mk-16 ranges.

Rob

drothgery wrote:

Armedneobob wrote:The frigates were built specifically for the Beowulf-based ASL, but even so, I think off-bore capability was left out; that is one of the major elements of Manticore's missile defense improvements, as well as vital to their new vessels offensive salvos. The frigates being unofficially in the hands of the Ballroom, gives too great a chance of a technology capture by Bad Guys.

Eh, either they have some broadside armament (which the Shrike and Ferret do not have), or they've got off-bore capability. The ships would be death traps without one or the other.

SharkHunter wrote:

[...]
Eh, either they have some broadside armament (which the Shrike and Ferret do not have), or they've got off-bore capability. The ships would be death traps without one or the other.

Question, is that true? the older cruisers also had stern and bow missile missile launchers, and with a smaller wedge, I'd think they'd fire forward box launcher salvos like the LACs or sorta missile forward like the PT boats launched torpedoes back in WW-II (?)