Non-CLAC hyper-help for LAC's

So, I'm thinking and wondering again -

Take a DD (or maybe an old CL, CA - it just has to be conveniently around, really) and a handful of LAC's - 6, 8, along those lines. Keep them just outside the hyperlimit. Make sure they're drilled together and the DD at least has a darned good astrogator.

Got a suspicious hyper footprint. LAC's ease up to the DD; DD goes into hyper with them along for it; group moves carefully to a destination matching the footprint; DD translates back down with them; group checks out ghosts in the black hats.

It is admittedly clunky. But is it too clunky to get a response to suspicious hyper footprints that's (1) able to fight through small incursions, (2) able to check out those ghosts well with a lot of sensor platforms and fast ones at that, and (3) not so large or demanding of crucial resources that you couldn't affordably have quite a few of these operating at once? Or am I missing something that bumps it from the merely impractical I'm worried about to just can't happen?

I don't think it's a good idea to send out forces with the implicit understanding that they're supposed to engage whatever is out there. It's like this, if your scouts are able to easily defeat the intruder, then that Intruder wasn't big enough to actually matter (Because what intel can a Scout actually gather that far out?); if they aren't, you've just wasted a bunch of ships for no actual return.

The first priority of any such scouting force should be to confirm the contact, observe it through RDs, and then call in reinforcements.
LACs do not serve this goal, as they are simply not stealthy enough. What you actually want is a platform that can carry a lot of long-range probes.

The E wrote:I don't think it's a good idea to send out forces with the implicit understanding that they're supposed to engage whatever is out there. It's like this, if your scouts are able to easily defeat the intruder, then that Intruder wasn't big enough to actually matter (Because what intel can a Scout actually gather that far out?); if they aren't, you've just wasted a bunch of ships for no actual return.

The first priority of any such scouting force should be to confirm the contact, observe it through RDs, and then call in reinforcements.
LACs do not serve this goal, as they are simply not stealthy enough. What you actually want is a platform that can carry a lot of long-range probes.

Eh - engagement isn't the primary goal: the idea is to leave it as something that's not necessarily terrible if it happens. The LAC's aren't there primarily as fire platforms but as more search platforms, in addition to the DD and its recon drones.

Stealthy search for something intruding in your system and itself evading detection for all its worth isn't an imperative. It'd be nice, sure - it'd be harder for something to avoid being seen by something it cannot itself see - but unless you go looking with nothing but a single ship and its recon drone shell, you're going to have multiple contacts less stealthy than a recon drone out there. For that matter, visible LAC's could serve as beaters to drive a stealthy contact toward stealthy recon drones.

There is an issue in that the force would have a hard time itself avoiding a fight if the contact is real, hostile, and superior. In that case, the contact has at least failed in the mission of getting in undetected. The DD by itself - or a CLAC that's launched its LAC's which have since spread about - would still often have that problem though, with the hypergenerator likely still recharging and in the LAC group case, the sublight LAC's still having moved off from the convenient ride just as much as they would have from the clunky one.

1) LACs can be carried like that, yes.


2) Hyper transmissions are not instantaneous. Cycling time of 10 minutes means the fastest micro-jump takes at least that long, usually up to twice that long as you can't keep a hyper generator "hot" without either jumping or aborting.

3) Hyper transit is not instantaneous. It is 62 times shorter than normal travel in the Alpha band. So a six-light-hour distance becomes a six-light-minute one. Since you're going to start from 0 speed and have an acceleration of 8 kps squared, you aren't going to arrive faster than half an hour.





In a half-hour, a mesan spider ship will have moved 4 million kilometers. You are only going to find it by accident, since you can't find it any further than 150.000 kilometers at most.

Unless, of course, you launch several thousand recon drones in a full spherical search pattern.

Belial666 wrote:1) LACs can be carried like that, yes.

2) Hyper transmissions are not instantaneous. Cycling time of 10 minutes means the fastest micro-jump takes at least that long, usually up to twice that long as you can't keep a hyper generator "hot" without either jumping or aborting.

3) Hyper transit is not instantaneous. It is 62 times shorter than normal travel in the Alpha band. So a six-light-hour distance becomes a six-light-minute one. Since you're going to start from 0 speed and have an acceleration of 8 kps squared, you aren't going to arrive faster than half an hour.

In a half-hour, a mesan spider ship will have moved 4 million kilometers. You are only going to find it by accident, since you can't find it any further than 150.000 kilometers at most.

Unless, of course, you launch several thousand recon drones in a full spherical search pattern.

So, there's not a problem with the clunky LAC transport, there's "only" the typical spider drive detection one, and that's practically impossible yet.

There would be other opponents, but I doubt the SLN/GA conflict is going to see such sneaky delicate maneuvering on either side.

JeffEngel wrote:So, there's not a problem with the clunky LAC transport, there's "only" the typical spider drive detection one, and that's practically impossible yet.

Well it kind of sucks for them if they're a light month out and their ride home gets killed (which is somewhat more likely if it's a DD that's actively searching rather than a CLAC that dropped them well clear and popped out to return later)

But Mantie LACs have lots of endurance, they can run and wait for another hyper capable ship to come drag them home. (They probably don't have enough food and consumables to do a run home in n-space from that distance; even though their reactors would be good for it)

Now there's a truly curious concept but flawed. Given the fission pile etc. and the fact that once you're up to speed, all you need to maintain is your particle shielding, would you get home in a LAC under any circumstances?

Problem is interstellar distances even in the Honorverse are measured in light years. So as a LAC without the hyper multiplier, you're stuck in whatever system you were dropped off, because it would take you years to get to the next nearest star and I think the crew starved to death in the mean time.

SharkHunter wrote:Now there's a truly curious concept but flawed. Given the fission pile etc. and the fact that once you're up to speed, all you need to maintain is your particle shielding, would you get home in a LAC under any circumstances?

Problem is interstellar distances even in the Honorverse are measured in light years. So as a LAC without the hyper multiplier, you're stuck in whatever system you were dropped off, because it would take you years to get to the next nearest star and I think the crew starved to death in the mean time.

The situation in question was checking out a potential hyper transit at 1 light-month from the system primary. So the LACs are only 1 light-month from home. They can FTL comm for help, and wait for another ship to come pick them up.

SWM wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:Now there's a truly curious concept but flawed. Given the fission pile etc. and the fact that once you're up to speed, all you need to maintain is your particle shielding, would you get home in a LAC under any circumstances?

Problem is interstellar distances even in the Honorverse are measured in light years. So as a LAC without the hyper multiplier, you're stuck in whatever system you were dropped off, because it would take you years to get to the next nearest star and I think the crew starved to death in the mean time.

The situation in question was checking out a potential hyper transit at 1 light-month from the system primary. So the LACs are only 1 light-month from home. They can FTL comm for help, and wait for another ship to come pick them up.

Do we have any evidence that the FTL comm works over a distance of 1 light month?

SWM wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:Now there's a truly curious concept but flawed. Given the fission pile etc. and the fact that once you're up to speed, all you need to maintain is your particle shielding, would you get home in a LAC under any circumstances?

Problem is interstellar distances even in the Honorverse are measured in light years. So as a LAC without the hyper multiplier, you're stuck in whatever system you were dropped off, because it would take you years to get to the next nearest star and I think the crew starved to death in the mean time.

The situation in question was checking out a potential hyper transit at 1 light-month from the system primary. So the LACs are only 1 light-month from home. They can FTL comm for help, and wait for another ship to come pick them up.

RMN LAC's have bunkerage for a long, long time. Food may be an issue, particularly without preparation. But getting back in that case isn't too bad - accelerate up to .8c, coast, decelerate, get home in a month and a half, two months (I am so not calculating that when I'm tired), with a little subjective time off from relativity.

Still though, if something popped the hyper-ride, you would wonder if it wouldn't've popped the LAC's too. Maybe, maybe not. Certainly they are at a maneuver disadvantage out there versus a hypercapable unit, able to microjump ahead of them or away as it likes. But for any mission like this, there's a canary in the mine aspect to it: if the DD does not report back, you can assume it's not a ghost, it is serious, it is hostile, it can probably be found, drop a lot more on it now. That will incidentally give the LAC's another ride back.