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Command Slots

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Command Slots and moving Khumalo
Post by SharkHunter   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:51 am

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*nearly spilled the coffee I don't drink* when I read that one.

There's a reason that Khumalo is at Spindle and will be there for the foreseeable future. Same with Governor Medusa: they have credibility with a whole set of star systems for getting the Talbot Sector organized and well defended by the mobile RMN units, following Monica.

It's the same reason Lucien Cortez is still at BuPers and Hemphill at BuWeaps, and why part of Honor's contingent stays with her command team. They are simply the best at what they do in the exact areas they are needed, and while the Janacek admiralty may have been corrupt and deliberately wearing blinders, the White Haven run admiralty certainly is NOT.

To put it mildly, by backing his lower officers 100% the way he did in behalf of Queen Elizabeth at Monica, he's got "street credit" up the wazoo in his area of operation. Same with Medusa who has "political credit" to spare in the same area, and they make a pretty damn fine team, right where they are at.

Khumalo is already by now a full admiral, and with time in service and the destruction of Home Fleet, he's only outranked by a few other officers, so there's not really another place for him to go that isn't already fully helmed. More importantly, he himself recognizes that he's not even in the same league as a recently promoted commodore (Terekhov) at the Battle of Spindle, but what he is definitly qualified for, and better than anyone in the books is as the station commander and highest ranking represenative of the queen's armed forces in his sphere of operation (Talbott).

As always... thoughts?
Last edited by SharkHunter on Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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Re: Command Slots
Post by roseandheather   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:09 am

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Annachie wrote:Um no. Michelle answers to Caparelli. She just works for Khumlow. She isn't in his chain of command.

Her job is to do fleety things and support Khumlow and the govenor as requested, if memory serves.


Incorrect. Though as a flag officer she's expected to use her judgment and initiative, and given her rank and political prominence she is in communication with the Admiralty, Khumalo is the Talbott Station Commander. Michelle answers to him - that's why she had to "request his permission" when she went tearing off to Mesa, and why they made sure to promote Khumalo a day before Henke so he remained the superior officer on Talbott and therefore Michelle wasn't answering to someone more junior than she was.
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Re: Command Slots
Post by Hutch   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:30 am

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roseandheather wrote:
Annachie wrote:Um no. Michelle answers to Caparelli. She just works for Khumlow. She isn't in his chain of command.

Her job is to do fleety things and support Khumlow and the govenor as requested, if memory serves.


Incorrect. Though as a flag officer she's expected to use her judgment and initiative, and given her rank and political prominence she is in communication with the Admiralty, Khumalo is the Talbott Station Commander. Michelle answers to him - that's why she had to "request his permission" when she went tearing off to Mesa, and why they made sure to promote Khumalo a day before Henke so he remained the superior officer on Talbott and therefore Michelle wasn't answering to someone more junior than she was.



I still can't find the textev in Shadows of Freedom to confirm that. We know from textev that Khumalo was promoted to Vice Admiral ahead of Mike to keep the rank/time in line with the chain of command in Storm from the Shadows, but only Mike's promotion is mentioned in Shawdows of Freedom (unless I've missed it completely).

So I think Annachie is right, but Mike still sends reports via the Sector Commander (Khumalo), but stands alone as Fleet Commander.

I could be wrong, of course...
Last edited by Hutch on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.

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Re: Command Slots
Post by cthia   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:56 am

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SharkHunter wrote:
Poor Andrea.... except that she's serving with the RMN's premier fleet admiral, and is WAY more effective in her spot there than anywhere else in the RMN, which is why she's still there.

Keep in mind, while according to Allison Harrington's analysis of her hubbies family DNA, apparently the Harrington's tend to be in the high 95+ percenters, Honor's not some genius without compare in the known galaxy. It's stated that some of the better Havenite officers are tactically close to peer level (primarily Theisman and Tourville, and a few others) but that she tends to have "the touch" which makes her a devastating command officer.

Back to the good Commander now Captain Senior grade... We all know that by now Andrea would likely ace the Crusher exams rather easily, so why not just ship her off and make it official? Then put her in command of a big squadron or battle group somewhere...

Easy, because she is one of the few RMN officers capable of sharpening Honor's tactical sword, now that Hamish Alexander is stuck near Manticore as a space Lord, not out at Trevor's star, etc. and has a reputation for being a rather savage opponent. When Honor is gaming out a possible fleet engagement, who do you think is designing and running the early opp-force and battle force simulations before handing the plans off for full-up fleet simulations, so that Honor's ships aren't doing the same old gimme sims and have to work for a victory?

Think of it this way, there's three main fleets that we are reading about right now, plus Sarnow's ships out in Silesia where they are busy stomping corrupt star system governments and will presumably be doing so for a while. Sarnow is known to be a superior tactician in his own right, and will have officers fitting his tasks with his fleet. Home fleet is busy rebuilding but is primarily a defensive formation, and that's where Honor is at "right now" (aRT) anyway. She's normally Eighth Fleet out at Trevor's star, and Tenth fleet which has both Terekhov and Oversteegen to sharpen Henke's tactical sword.

So I figure Andrea will do just fine when the time comes for her to not be Honor's near-peer in the tactical tank.

Isn't it a given, that anyone on Honor's command team eventually goes on to bigger and better things? The Admiralty made that observaion to Honor herself, when prodding her for a teaching post.

Jaruwalski should be getting her own ship. And well deserved. She's the kind of officer you want in command. One brandishing an IQ.

Question is. Has anyone in command position ever served with Honor who didn't go on to bigger and :o ... things?

(Just couldn't say better. What could be better than serving with Honor, lest commanding and serving with Honor?)

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Command Slots
Post by Hutch   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:06 am

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Just wondering....is there any reason that Andrea Jaruwalski would not have attended the Crusher in the interwar years (PD 1915-1920).

Admittedly this would have been under the Janacek time and he and his appointees would not be doing Honor or any of her proteges and favors, but the Crusher still required students and Honor, from her time there, probably had a favor or three to cash....

So IMHO, Cpt(SG) Andrea Jaruwalski is a Graduate of the Advance course, class of 1917.
***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.

What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
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Re: Command Slots
Post by Draken   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:41 am

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Best thing for Andrea would be a squadron commander in Eight Fleet, so she could learn tactic and strategy from the best. Cardones is on next list for flag rank sow he don't give Imperator to Scotty?
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Re: Command Slots
Post by JeffEngel   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:44 am

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Apart from SharkHunter, I am not feeling the appreciation of a good staff officer here. Jaruwalski and Brigham do very, very well right where they are. If there is more to make of their talents, it may well be in a similar position higher up, rather than off merely commanding some bunch of cruisers, or some single one even.

For that matter, Honor's own career didn't feature nearly the staff-side experience appropriate to her seniority. There has been a bit of time on the Weapon Design Board, Academy instruction time, and input planning Buttercup. Other than that, it's been command and tactical postings since she was a very junior officer, and at most "staff-ish" time as an executive officer and (briefly) as a flag captain. Much as she walks on space warfare water, she can probably use the very best staff she can get to cover for her own relative inexperience that way.

We don't hear so much griping that Shannon Foraker hasn't got a combat command or that she's being wasted merely organizing and building the RHN. I submit that, writ perhaps a bit smaller, Andrea Jaruwalski and Mercedes Brigham may be regarded as her junior counterparts in Manticoran/Grayson service.
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Re: Command Slots
Post by Hutch   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:48 pm

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JeffEngel wrote: *SNIP*

We don't hear so much griping that Shannon Foraker hasn't got a combat command or that she's being wasted merely organizing and building the RHN. I submit that, writ perhaps a bit smaller, Andrea Jaruwalski and Mercedes Brigham may be regarded as her junior counterparts in Manticoran/Grayson service.



Well except from Shannon (I think it was in War of Honor), when she found that she had to stay in Bolthole instead of taking command of the SD(P)'s she had been building.

Remember, first and foremost, Shannon Foraker is a highly-gifted "Tac Witch" who would much prefer to be on the bridge commanding her own Fleet...and who knows, maybe someday RFC will give her that chance....
***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.

What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
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Re: Command Slots
Post by Hutch   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:50 pm

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Hutch wrote:
JeffEngel wrote: *SNIP*

We don't hear so much griping that Shannon Foraker hasn't got a combat command or that she's being wasted merely organizing and building the RHN. I submit that, writ perhaps a bit smaller, Andrea Jaruwalski and Mercedes Brigham may be regarded as her junior counterparts in Manticoran/Grayson service.



Well, no griping except from Shannon(I think it was in War of Honor), when she found that she had to stay in Bolthole instead of taking command of the SD(P)'s she had been building.

Remember, first and foremost, Shannon Foraker is a highly-gifted "Tac Witch" who would much prefer to be on a bridge commanding her own Fleet...and who knows, maybe someday RFC will give her that chance....
***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.

What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
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Re: Command Slots
Post by SharkHunter   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:04 pm

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I like Hutch's idea of Jaruwalski attending during the inter-war years also, but I think Janacek would have squashed it during the downsizing of Saganami's student body he forced through. But I'm willing to have her finishing the ATC course somehow even if it's by some form of fleet e-mail home study course [there isn't one, I know].

Meanwhile, you could be right about the admiralty promoting her to Commodore an handing her a squadron of Eighth Fleet; she ould still be in Honor's vicinity enough to war game effectively and given her tactical abilities, she'd be ideal to command any reconstituted version of Henke's old battle cruiser squadron... that is, when the RMN is again ready to build b/c squadrons again.

Putting her in a Sag-C in the mean time, for example seems unlikely, I think the Sag-C workspace will be the commerce protector and "counter raider" from hell usually being used in independent operationsand get tasked in Silesia, Talbott, and the Verge.

As for Cardones, he's in command of an SD(p), helping develop alot of the tactics for the class as a top notch ship-handler, but he's gonna go upstairs (commodore rank) soon enough.

After Filereta's Folly, I imagine there are a few battle awards and promotions due from the Queen, etc. But until the promotions board [AKA David Weber himself in the next book(s)] release the promo list, we'll all just have to munch our popcorn, fingernails, non-Honorverse book spines, etc. waiting to figure it out.
Last edited by SharkHunter on Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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