The Grand Alliance Grand Attack

Relax wrote:

Zakharra wrote:The RHN can't make the Apollo missiles, or any missiles yet.

What more needs said after that whopper. Yup, BOMA 1 never happened...

I am afraid to rap you upside the head, it might implode.

PS. DW is the one who had RHN freighters dumping pods in their civil war. Ya might have noticed but all those MMM ships going to the SL are sitting in Manticoran space at the moment... The verge is already saturated by MMM hulls on their scheduled routes as the MMM per DW already dominate the verge. Adding more ships to routes already saturated isn't helping anyone.

I believe that Zakharra meant that the RHN cannot yet make any Manticoran missiles for Manticoran ships.

They just don't have sophisticated enough factories and they don't have any information about that, on the other hand Beowulf has information and factories to build mini fusion reactors.
Do we know where are Sollies shipyards?
One is on Mars orbit, and there is one of biggest storage area of mothballed ships.
So GA planners and commanders should consider attacking this one or other, because if we destroy as much as possible of this ships, we will have less to fight against later. Why all of these shipyards are in the inner part of system?
Going back to destroying shipyards, if Sollies tech is as poor as I'm thinking it is, we should be able to send let's say forty CLACs with escort to destroy it. Maybe few divisions of heavier ships if we found heavy defence? In Beowulf system we have something like 200 ships which is overkill, so we shall send let's say 90-120 of them to destroy every shipyard in 90 ly radius from Beowulf.

SWM wrote:

Relax wrote:"Zakharra"
The RHN can't make the Apollo missiles, or any missiles yet. quote



What more needs said after that whopper. Yup, BOMA 1 never happened...

I am afraid to rap you upside the head, it might implode.

PS. DW is the one who had RHN freighters dumping pods in their civil war. Ya might have noticed but all those MMM ships going to the SL are sitting in Manticoran space at the moment... The verge is already saturated by MMM hulls on their scheduled routes as the MMM per DW already dominate the verge. Adding more ships to routes already saturated isn't helping anyone.

I believe that Zakharra meant that the RHN cannot yet make any Manticoran missiles for Manticoran ships.

That's what I meant. I thought it was obvious enough Relax would have caught that. The missiles and tech the RMN uses isn't compatible with the RHN (RHN missiles are too big and large, not to mention use different technology several generations behind the RMN) and won't be for awhile until the RHN tech/industrial base is upgraded to the level of miniaturization and programming and power sources the RMN is capable of. Also Manticore isn't able to make anything atm. It's busy rebuilding the space stations, industrial/nanite plants and shipyards. Beolwulf is going to be building RMN style missiles before Manticore can do it.

I must point out to Relax that the MMM he is touting.. isn't in SL space any more. ALL of them were recalled; from the Core, from the Inner and Outer Protectorates, and from the Verge. That was the point of Lacoon 1. The complete removal of MMM ships from all of SL space, which includes a considerable part of the Verge (otherwise they wouldn't have OFS and Frontier Fleet in the area) Unless that MMM is on RMN business there are -no- Manty merchant vessels in SL space. Period. and a good number of the crews on those MMM ships are currently on active duty on RMN warships.

Just to jump in here with a couple of nits from text ev.

Haven doesn't currently have the capacity to manufacture Manticorian tech. However I seem to remember that a certain tech team went out to Bolthole and probably within a reasonable time frame, Haven's capacity will be upgraded. "Currently" means at the end of ART.

Secondly, Beowulf's overall tech is on a similar plane as Manticore. But it's military tech is behind and will need upgrade. That was deliberate to prevent advanced tech from falling into the hands of the SLN.

Don

n7axw wrote:Just to jump in here with a couple of nits from text ev.

Haven doesn't currently have the capacity to manufacture Manticorian tech. However I seem to remember that a certain tech team went out to Bolthole and probably within a reasonable time frame, Haven's capacity will be upgraded. "Currently" means at the end of ART.

Secondly, Beowulf's overall tech is on a similar plane as Manticore. But it's military tech is behind and will need upgrade. That was deliberate to prevent advanced tech from falling into the hands of the SLN.

Don

You're pretty much spot on I think. Beowulf's military tech is pretty much on par with SEM tech. They just chose not to use it in their SDF because they wanted to keep SEM/RMN technology out of the SLN's hands. Since if they use it, the SLN could get its hands on the technology (as probably determined by several treaties and agreements that allow the SDFs to exist in the SL). But Beowulf will be able to add to its tech base and start building RMN missiles sooner than Manticore will be able to and within a year, they shoukld be able to start turning out RMN capable light ships, the SDs will take more time to build of course. A couple of years likely. And I expect the SEM's building times to be slower for awhile until the new technicians and ship builders get trained and up to speed. As I understand it, most of the highly skilled labor force Manticore had died in the Oyster Bay attack, so I expect that it will take time for SEM to get back to the building rates it had before OB.

I think it will take several years, up to 5 to upgrade Haven's technological base to start building ships and missiles and drones compatible with the RMN

I'm not sure if building new factories at Bolthole would be that much slower then building them in Beowulf and the Bolthole ones would be much more secure IMO.

Zakharra wrote:

n7axw wrote:Just to jump in here with a couple of nits from text ev.

Haven doesn't currently have the capacity to manufacture Manticorian tech. However I seem to remember that a certain tech team went out to Bolthole and probably within a reasonable time frame, Haven's capacity will be upgraded. "Currently" means at the end of ART.

Secondly, Beowulf's overall tech is on a similar plane as Manticore. But it's military tech is behind and will need upgrade. That was deliberate to prevent advanced tech from falling into the hands of the SLN.

Don

You're pretty much spot on I think. Beowulf's military tech is pretty much on par with SEM tech. They just chose not to use it in their SDF because they wanted to keep SEM/RMN technology out of the SLN's hands. Since if they use it, the SLN could get its hands on the technology (as probably determined by several treaties and agreements that allow the SDFs to exist in the SL). But Beowulf will be able to add to its tech base and start building RMN missiles sooner than Manticore will be able to and within a year, they shoukld be able to start turning out RMN capable light ships, the SDs will take more time to build of course. A couple of years likely. And I expect the SEM's building times to be slower for awhile until the new technicians and ship builders get trained and up to speed. As I understand it, most of the highly skilled labor force Manticore had died in the Oyster Bay attack, so I expect that it will take time for SEM to get back to the building rates it had before OB.

I think it will take several years, up to 5 to upgrade Haven's technological base to start building ships and missiles and drones compatible with the RMN

You've got one political military relationship a little backwards here. The SL charter and agreement to SL membership ALLOWS the SLN to exist in addition to the member star nations/systems SDFs, not the other way around. A subtle but important distinction - one which, in most cases, theoretically allows the member state to say with at least moral authority, "get your bloated SDs out of my sovereign space - we don't need you / want you here!", and the SLN is nominally obligated to go (while the political issues are worked out, presumbably.)

Beowulf (and Manticore) weren't worried about Beowulf being forced to turn tech over to the SLN. They were worried that if Beowulf had it/deployed it, the SLN would finally bother to PAY ATTENTION , and the SLN's suppliers would fall all over themselves trying to STEAL it. Also, it would cause serious political problems with Beowulf's forlorn efforts to steer the continuing mudslide that was Solarian League policy.

dreamrider

SWM wrote:I believe that Zakharra meant that the RHN cannot yet make any Manticoran missiles for Manticoran ships.

I know exactly what he was thinking, or not thinking as the case may be. Why I was rolling on the floor laughing. Seems you can't figure out the obvious either.

For both of you:

What is the title of the damned thread? Grand ALLIANCE Grand Attack. Ai carumba. It is NOT, Grand RMN grand attack

Shall I point out the obvious? That I thought should have been self evident due to the THREAD TOPIC NAME?

RHN missiles in pods are more than enough to completely obliterate all SLN SD's and BC's in 6 months. RMN missiles/ships need not even bother to be used. No manufacturing of any missiles is needed to obliterate the ISLN.

Zakharra wrote: I must point out to Relax that the MMM he is touting.. isn't in SL space any more. ALL of them were recalled; from the Core, from the Inner and Outer Protectorates, and from the Verge. That was the point of Lacoon 1. The complete removal of MMM ships from all of SL space, which includes a considerable part of the Verge (otherwise they wouldn't have OFS and Frontier Fleet in the area) Unless that MMM is on RMN business there are -no- Manty merchant vessels in SL space. Period. and a good number of the crews on those MMM ships are currently on active duty on RMN warships.

1) The Verge is NOT the protectorates. Look at DW's maps. SL-Core-Shell-Protectorates then the Verge. Haven/Manticore/Andies/TQ etc are all in the Verge.

2) The ships were recalled to "friendly" space, NOT their crews to active duty. Where on earth did you ever get that idea from? Read ART again. First couple of chapters. Notice whats his face was ruminating that he was "likely" going to recalled to active duty and toting back something quite a bit less profitable and a lot more explosive.

3) Look at a timeline. Lacoon I, was not a recall. It was a war warning. Or you could recall there was this "little problem child" called Oyster Bay that rolled through Mancticoran space when Lacoon II was kicking off and MMM shipping was simultaneously being pulled from SL space. OB eliminated any "new" shipping these recalled crews could have possibly gone to in either case, even if you are correct about being recalled to active duty.

Bottom line: Thousands of stationary freighters with crews and no income.

Now, I will work on a reply for ya Hutch though it is 9pm already. Yikes. Might be another day or two.