Containerized shipping

AirTech wrote:

n7axw wrote:It would be hard to visualize there not being shipping containers on Safehold. They wouldn't be standardized in size. There would be the type used by Nynian's shipping company which we see used to facilitate their escape from Zion. Then there would be the type designed to be lifted into the hold of a galleon by a dockside boom. For an example of the boom, visualize that cannon being hoisted onto Destiny prior to Ithyria in HFAF.

All the ingriedients are there and we know there's lots of shipping going on.

Don

Standardized boxes were a result of containerization which relied on forklifts and standardized pallets. Prior to containerization ships were stuffed with as much as they could physically hold by large crews of dock workers.
The advantage of containerization is two fold, it reduces number of waterside workers required and sealed boxes large enough to require a truck to shift, to limit pilferage (which was up to 20%). The current standard shipping container was defined by standard truck body sizes (less chassis) and contrary to popular belief there are four standard sizes - ten foot, twenty foot, thirty foot and forty foot. The twenty is the most common followed by the forty foot. The ten foot is rare and used most often by the military for munitions (the US military has their own non-standard standard (of course)) and other hazardous cargoes.
The thirty foot unit hasn't been used in forty years.

The US Military forced containerization:

"The standardised steel shipping container has its origins in the 1950s when commercial shipping operators and the United States military started developing such units.[2] Shipping owner Malcom McLean worked with engineer Keith Tantlinger to develop the modern intermodal container. The logistics method employing these was named Container Express and was abbreviated ConEx."
and
"The United States and Canada often use longer units at 48 ft (14.63 m) and 53 ft (16.15 m)."

Both quotes from the same source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodal_container

As long as galleons are the major source of shipping at sea, containers will probably have to be pretty small... One could standardize the size of the container and the hatch of the ship so that the container could be lowered into the hull. There would be some wasted space if you relied exclusively on containers. But I would suspect that there would always be things that needed to be shipped that didn't lend themselves to containerization. that could be poked into the corners or along the sides.

As steam comes into play, the size and the arrangement of the containers and hatches could become bigger as would the ships.

I would expect that railroads and steam ships will probably grow up together.

Don

n7axw wrote:As long as galleons are the major source of shipping at sea, containers will probably have to be pretty small... One could standardize the size of the container and the hatch of the ship so that the container could be lowered into the hull. There would be some wasted space if you relied exclusively on containers. But I would suspect that there would always be things that needed to be shipped that didn't lend themselves to containerization. that could be poked into the corners or along the sides.

As steam comes into play, the size and the arrangement of the containers and hatches could become bigger as would the ships.

I would expect that railroads and steam ships will probably grow up together.

Don

A container ship is essentially a rail ferry without the carriage wheels. It takes longer to unload but is denser and cheaper to shift, so over a longer distance will be cheaper. (Removing the carriage wheels, axles and suspension saves about 2 to 3 tons on a 20 ton, 20ft container load (which is about 2 tons empty)). (Note, a fully loaded standard 20ft container will float if it is water tight).
In our timeline a truck operator wanted a truck ferry but realized the axles on a semitrailer body were a massive waste of space to ship, so he removed them. Similar reasoning holds for truck trailers on rail services.
The US Military were not involved or even consulted, and even today rarely use ISO containerized cargo (a container requires infrastructure that will almost certainly be absent or destroyed in a war zone). Smaller, denser packages generally suit them better - a typical forklift pallet at a time is perfect for most uses. (At 2 tons max, 1 ton typical)
Palletized cargo and the forklift were a WWII innovation and were really driven by the military, and modern pallet rentals were a direct result of military surplus equipment. (Look up CHEP's history).
A similar option would be to use prepacked lighters and run them ashore in locations where docks are not available.

AirTech wrote:The US Military were not involved or even consulted, and even today rarely use ISO containerized cargo (a container requires infrastructure that will almost certainly be absent or destroyed in a war zone).

I can't say who or how standardized containers came to be, but the US military certainly was involved with the development and use of CONEX containers which are fully compatible with Standard cargo containers as far as I've ever been able to determine. That may have changed since I retired, since I've been retired longer than I was in the USAF, but from my first duty assignment in 1969 to my retirement in 1989, CONEX containers were part of planning and usage. Standardized pallets also played a big role in deployments, but so did CONEX containers.

Now that I think about it for a bit, the difference between a CONEX and a standard intermodal container is the forklift slots in the ten and twenty foot containers as shown in this image of a twenty foot model:



With the slots and/or a crane harness the military can make do without the specialized cranes and trucks used at container ports for super-carrier container ships.

Don't forget barge traffic. Canal shipping has taken the place of railroad traffic in Safehold, and it is built around standardized-sized locks, and standardized sized barges. And it seems to me that a barge is already a fairly ideal shape to load with containers. In fact, any loss of volume could be made good by simply piling the containers higher, since stability considerations are a lot relaxed for barges on a canal.

Even if pre-Merlin Safehold never thought of it (quite likely, with the Church discouraging innovation), that would be a good innovation for the Charisian army when it comes to transloading supplies from ships to barges to supply inland armies. There's still the problem of adapting ocean ships to it though.

Without specialized equipment large boxes are extremely difficult if not impossible to handle.



Barrels and kegs were used in the old days for a reason, on their sides one man can roll them with no special equipment. A barrel contains liquid or protects things like flour from water and is water tight while a keg is not water tight. Fragile items were packed in sawdust in kegs. Some extremely large barrels called hogs heads sometimes had holes to allow a horse to roll them on an axle through the hole.

Poker

pokermind wrote:snip

A barrel contains liquid or protects things like flour from water and is water tight while a keg is not water tight.

Poker

If kegs aren't watertight, why do they deliver beer in kegs?

fallsfromtrees wrote:

pokermind wrote:snip

A barrel contains liquid or protects things like flour from water and is water tight while a keg is not water tight.

Poker

If kegs aren't watertight, why do they deliver beer in kegs?

That's to make sure we drink it before it gets away!

Don

fallsfromtrees wrote:

pokermind wrote:snip

A barrel contains liquid or protects things like flour from water and is water tight while a keg is not water tight.

Poker

If kegs aren't watertight, why do they deliver beer in kegs?

Poker

fallsfromtrees wrote:

pokermind wrote:snip

A barrel contains liquid or protects things like flour from water and is water tight while a keg is not water tight.

Poker

If kegs aren't watertight, why do they deliver beer in kegs?

I believe that Keg was actually a size of barrel, and am more used to the designation of tight cooperage (for liquids), and loose cooperage (for barrels that were not water tight). A cooper makes barrels (primarily those who make them from wood).