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Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)
Post by Randomiser   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:04 am

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n7axw wrote:I had Merlin's katana pictured as a scottish style broadsword... anybody else have better ideas?

Don


I obviously had a misspent youth, the katana and the wakizashi are the long and short swords carried by a traditional samurai warrior in Japan. Merlin chose them because Nimue had some training in Kendo, which is a modern martial art using a bamboo version of a katana. (Probably also to emphasise Merlin's exotic background since no-one else on Safehold had ever seen one before.). The Graysons, on the other hand, chose katanas because their founders brought along some really bad old movies!
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Re: Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)
Post by XofDallas   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:52 am

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evilauthor wrote:Does anyone on Safehold really know what Helmcleaver LOOKS like? It's described as a "magic sword", but that's a vague description and swords come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Merlin's own swords would certainly qualify to be "Helmcleaver" if their design wasn't explicitly alien to Safehold.

Also, it's likely the Archangels issued standardized swords to their Seijinn. Even if everyone knows what those swords look like (Safeholdian swords might be patterned after them), how could anyone be sure that a particular magic sword was THE Helmcleaver?


In one of the snippets, Ninyan mentions shaving pieces of granite off a block with Helm Cleaver. That would imply it's a force blade of some sort, so it's indeed possible that the sword could be recognizable, if, for example, it's described in the myths, or if it's "magical" abilities are a part of the legend.

It would all depend on how RFC might set things up.

Most of the points raised in the responses are well taken. Thank you. :)
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Re: Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)
Post by Guardiandashi   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:33 am

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XofDallas wrote:
evilauthor wrote:Does anyone on Safehold really know what Helmcleaver LOOKS like? It's described as a "magic sword", but that's a vague description and swords come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Merlin's own swords would certainly qualify to be "Helmcleaver" if their design wasn't explicitly alien to Safehold.

Also, it's likely the Archangels issued standardized swords to their Seijinn. Even if everyone knows what those swords look like (Safeholdian swords might be patterned after them), how could anyone be sure that a particular magic sword was THE Helmcleaver?


In one of the snippets, Ninyan mentions shaving pieces of granite off a block with Helm Cleaver. That would imply it's a force blade of some sort, so it's indeed possible that the sword could be recognizable, if, for example, it's described in the myths, or if it's "magical" abilities are a part of the legend.

It would all depend on how RFC might set things up.

Most of the points raised in the responses are well taken. Thank you. :)


I got the impression that "helm Cleaver" was likely a battlesteel sword with a monofilament or monomolecular edge similar to what "merlin" considered doing with the Katana, but chose not to do, but in fact did with the wakizashi
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Re: Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)
Post by isaac_newton   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:34 am

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XofDallas wrote:
evilauthor wrote:Does anyone on Safehold really know what Helmcleaver LOOKS like? It's described as a "magic sword", but that's a vague description and swords come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Merlin's own swords would certainly qualify to be "Helmcleaver" if their design wasn't explicitly alien to Safehold.

Also, it's likely the Archangels issued standardized swords to their Seijinn. Even if everyone knows what those swords look like (Safeholdian swords might be patterned after them), how could anyone be sure that a particular magic sword was THE Helmcleaver?


In one of the snippets, Ninyan mentions shaving pieces of granite off a block with Helm Cleaver. That would imply it's a force blade of some sort, so it's indeed possible that the sword could be recognizable, if, for example, it's described in the myths, or if it's "magical" abilities are a part of the legend.

It would all depend on how RFC might set things up.

Most of the points raised in the responses are well taken. Thank you. :)


I seem to remember Merlin whittling a poker with one of his swords - so no force blade needed, battle steel good enough :-)
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Re: Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:16 am

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Hi Randomiser,

Welcome Guardianashi to the forums enjoy your favorite cg beverage on the cg forum. ;)

You guys left out Prince Valiant and the singing sword. 8-) :D :lol:

But I kinda doubt RFC's gonna go there for some reason.;)

L


Randomiser wrote:*quote="Guardiandashi"*[quote="evilauthor"]Does anyone on Safehold really know what Helmcleaver LOOKS like? It's described as a "magic sword", but that's a vague description and swords come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Merlin's own swords would certainly qualify to be "Helmcleaver" if their design wasn't explicitly alien to Safehold.

Also, it's likely the Archangels issued standardized swords to their Seijinn. Even if everyone knows what those swords look like (Safeholdian swords might be patterned after them), how could anyone be sure that a particular magic sword was THE Helmcleaver?*quote*

All of a sudden I had an idea for a "funny"
merlin, or nimue making up a sword that says "helm Cleaver" down the blade, and with a voice generator (built into the sword) that as theyt start wielding it has the "sword" yelling I am helm cleaver fear me... or some such


Or how about A big floating holographic neon sign that says 'Look he's using Helm Cleaver!'? How else would you spread the news? By the way, can I introduce you to Robin Hood?[/quote]
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:24 am

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Hi Randomiser,

Some of those old samurai movies were pretty good. ;)

My folks spent 3+ years in Japan during the occupation and really loved the art and culture.

Was it just the movies for you?

After all, they inspired "The Magnificent Seven" and the 'spaghetti westerns', etc.

Should we make a list of all the western versions?

L


Randomiser wrote:
n7axw wrote:I had Merlin's katana pictured as a scottish style broadsword... anybody else have better ideas?

Don


I obviously had a misspent youth, the katana and the wakizashi are the long and short swords carried by a traditional samurai warrior in Japan. Merlin chose them because Nimue had some training in Kendo, which is a modern martial art using a bamboo version of a katana. (Probably also to emphasise Merlin's exotic background since no-one else on Safehold had ever seen one before.). The Graysons, on the other hand, chose katanas because their founders brought along some really bad old movies!
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
Top
Re: Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:33 am

lyonheart
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Posts: 4853
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Hi Isaac_Newton,

Yup, AMF, where he's proving a few things to Nahrmahn and Olivia.

In the other thread on this subject proving it was Helm Cleaver by shaving strips off granite blocks was rather obvious.

The main problem after its revealed is the SSK keeping it from Go4 armies or Harchong lords who sent huge 'escorts', unless the 'many' seijins make it plain: "Do not touch; Do not try to steal, Anyone who does will die quickly and mysteriously".

L


isaac_newton wrote:*quote="XofDallas"*[quote="evilauthor"]Does anyone on Safehold really know what Helmcleaver LOOKS like? It's described as a "magic sword", but that's a vague description and swords come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Merlin's own swords would certainly qualify to be "Helmcleaver" if their design wasn't explicitly alien to Safehold.

Also, it's likely the Archangels issued standardized swords to their Seijinn. Even if everyone knows what those swords look like (Safeholdian swords might be patterned after them), how could anyone be sure that a particular magic sword was THE Helmcleaver?*quote*

In one of the snippets, Ninyan mentions shaving pieces of granite off a block with Helm Cleaver. That would imply it's a force blade of some sort, so it's indeed possible that the sword could be recognizable, if, for example, it's described in the myths, or if it's "magical" abilities are a part of the legend.

It would all depend on how RFC might set things up.

Most of the points raised in the responses are well taken. Thank you. :)


I seem to remember Merlin whittling a poker with one of his swords - so no force blade needed, battle steel good enough :-)[/quote]
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:52 am

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InvisibleBison wrote:

While it does seem that tales of Seijin Kohdy are widespread on Safehold, for everyone but the SSk, they're just tales - fairy tales, myths, what have you. They're not true. I imagine the average Safeholdian's reaction to being told that this particular sword is Helm Cleaver would be somewhere between confusion and amusement, neither of which are conducive to enhancing the authority of the sword-bearer.

I disagree. The Church of God Awaiting erased seijin Kohdy's name from the church's list of seijins, but it would be impossible to erase his name from every document. Some monastery somewhere will have a copy of the original list including Kohdy's name. Think of the millions, possibly, of testimonies made by the original adams and eves. Think of the monastery of Ste. Zherneau.

And even for those who don't have access to the true list, think of families with access to miraculous artifacts. How difficult would it be for the Wylsynn family, who have the verifier, to believe in a miraculous sword?

Admittedly, the Wylsynn family is not your average Safeholdian, but repeat the verifier a few times with a holographic projector here, a kleig lamp there, and a sonic screwdrive in the other place. The average Safeholdian my not be so skeptical as you're thinking.

~Tonto
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Re: Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)
Post by Randomiser   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:00 pm

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lyonheart wrote:Hi Randomiser,

Some of those old samurai movies were pretty good. ;)

My folks spent 3+ years in Japan during the occupation and really loved the art and culture.

Was it just the movies for you?

After all, they inspired "The Magnificent Seven" and the 'spaghetti westerns', etc.

Should we make a list of all the western versions?

L




Hi Lyonheart

If I remember correctly, off the top of my head, it was Honor who thought the movies were somewhat lacking in artistic merit :)

I was just drawing attention to the fact that DW also chose to feature Japanese swords in that other universe of his, which only occurred to me as I was writing the post.
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Re: Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:41 pm

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Where did she say/think that?

The tradition that Grayson's first swordmasters learned from the movie "The Seven Samurai" was mentioned in Flag In Exile and Honor hadn't been able to track down the movie.

The only comment about the movie was that if the swordmasters had learned their craft from the movie, then the movie makers had been more accurate than Manticore's "movie makers". :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Randomiser wrote:Hi Lyonheart

If I remember correctly, off the top of my head, it was Honor who thought the movies were somewhat lacking in artistic merit :)

I was just drawing attention to the fact that DW also chose to feature Japanese swords in that other universe of his, which only occurred to me as I was writing the post.
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Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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