Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 76 guests

Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by n7axw   » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:35 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

kzt wrote:Janacek surrounded himself with todies, yes men and sycophants. So he never heard, until his CNO bailed, anything from any of his advisers or senior officers that didn't support his stated ideas of how things worked. And by that point things were irreversible.

This isn't that uncommon in real life. For example, the loss of Mosul to ISIS two days ago doesn't exactly match the USG pronouncements that al Qaeda is a spent and dying force, which is part of the foundation concepts that has guided the US foreign policy for the last few years.


I agree with you on this one, although I do find myself wondering if what we are looking at right now as more of a Sunni reaction to majority Shia rule with Al Qaeda simply taking advantage of a situation already ripe for explosion.

Short of being willing to stay forever, kzt, I don't think we could have prevented what is happening. Eventually these people have to be responsible for themselves.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:37 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

roseandheather wrote:
cthia wrote:Eloise Pritchart is stated to have dark skin, with platinum blonde hair and topaz eyes. I apologize, but every time I read Ellie's ( Giscard's intimate name for her (sigh)), I melt. If you look up exotic in the encyclopedia you may see her pic.

But I find it to be rather ironic that her treecat name is Truth Seeker when she is such a consummate liar. Respectfully. She lied so convincingly to the Committee of Public Safety that she thoroughly convinced them that she had repudiated the Aprilist movement. She convinced them that she was loyal to them. Simultaneously while completely hiding her relationship and feelings for Giscard. Politics, she was born for. How can a woman so sweet pretend to be a cold dispassionate fan of State Sec?

Did Giscard have a treecat name?


Because she may be sweet, but she is far from tender -- and she has no problem playing a part if it gets her what she wants. Sweet, yes; soft, never. She did what had to be done because she knew she was doing it for a greater good, and if that meant she had to do and say things that made her stomach curdle, well, that was just too bad for her stomach.

(I love Eloise Pritchart, in case that isn't clear. I'd even go so far to say that she is at least as much a hero as Honor is, if not even more so.)

As for Javier's treecat name - we never heard one, and it's up in the air as to whether or not the treecats would be able to give him one, because no treecat ever tasted his "mind-glow" directly. But it is possible that they might be able to do so based on Eloise's memories of him. And if he does have one - I want it!!

*devolves into incoherent babble and slaughters another box of tissues*

I always understood why she did it. Just amazed me that she could do it. Her stomach? Her entire soul must have curdled...her soul must have been like buttermilk. My niece always said that she gave a new meaning to 'take one for the team.' I always got the impression that at the end of the day, only her relationship with Giscard kept her sane. Oh to what heights she could have soared had he not died. I simply cannot wait to see her portrayed onscreen. Look and all! He died with Eloi— on his lips. What the quintessential love story.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:03 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

I never fully understood, other than it being deeply entrenched within the stink of politics, how Cordelia Ransom could have survived so long without getting rubbed out. Pierre and Giancola both distrusted her! Esther McQueen was always living on borrowed time, but at least she had the trust (somewhat) of Rob Pierre, I thought. It was more Oscar who had his undies in a twist over her. In fact, everyone seemed to hate Ransom. But she survived so long.

Icy blue eyes, her personal transport is the PNS Tepes, named after the infamously brutal Romanian Prince and inspiration for Dracula and crewed entirely by State Sec goons, with extra brig space and extra space for landing assault troopers. Bitch incarnate. The communist bitch would have had Hitler assassinated for being too weak!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Direwolf18   » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:44 pm

Direwolf18
Captain of the List

Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:39 pm

Ah Cthia, they feared her, found her unstable and dangerous, but the Mob was far far worse. She was a very useful tool for controlling and deflecting their anger.

Especialy when she was good and dead.

But yea, she would have outlived her usefulness at some point and they would have purged her.


Interesting aside. I have a Ukranian friend whose family is from about 60 miles from where Dracula's castle was. They have a very different view of him then your standard post Dracula movie responses. Yea he was brutal, but it was against people who deserved it as far as most of the locals were concerned, PARTICULARLY the Muslim Turks who were hell bent on conquering their lands.
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:08 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Direwolf18 wrote:Ah Cthia, they feared her, found her unstable and dangerous, but the Mob was far far worse. She was a very useful tool for controlling and deflecting their anger.

Especialy when she was good and dead.

But yea, she would have outlived her usefulness at some point and they would have purged her.


Interesting aside. I have a Ukranian friend whose family is from about 60 miles from where Dracula's castle was. They have a very different view of him then your standard post Dracula movie responses. Yea he was brutal, but it was against people who deserved it as far as most of the locals were concerned, PARTICULARLY the Muslim Turks who were hell bent on conquering their lands.

If Ransom would have found herself as President, woe unto the planets of the Honorverse.

Beside your aside:
I have a lot of Romanian friends, Bucharesti. And I have an obsession with castles. I can't get enough of them. Nineteen so far. Dracula's castle twice in the same summer. (Someone was sick and we had to cut the first short). What I knew of Dracula was all fictitious tv and literature. The tour and history lesson is spellbinding. The castle (and surrounding countryside) is jaw dropping! Europeans all laugh at what Americans know of Dracula. I felt like an idiot. There are actually several sites associated with Dracula.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Direwolf18   » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:24 pm

Direwolf18
Captain of the List

Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:39 pm

Oh nice, I always wanted to tour Europe and see the castles and other historical landmarks. I could probably spend years exploring the Roman ruins in Italy alone.

One day...

I have no idea the name of where his family is from. I do know they are (or were) Zaporozhian Cossaks, and they really really really don't like Russians. (Or Turks for that matter) Talking to him about the crap going on over there is always... Interesting...
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:27 pm

lyonheart
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4853
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi Cthia,

MacArthur didn't act like he was president, but he disregarded presidential wishes and desires, NTM 'misinforming' him of his intentions, which is rather a bad no-no for an officer in a democratic country, though the fate of someone doing that in an autocratic country is far worse.

MacArthur had a history of talking down to the senior US Army officers in the Pentagon for years, who were now his ostensible superiors but who had been very junior to him when he went to the Philippines before WW2, which my dad who was on MacArthur's staff at the time in Japan witnessed; 'advising them that their rules and regulations were faulty, so he and everyone in his command would be doing something different along these lines-, and you and the rest of the army might want to change and do the same as we are in SCAP [Supreme Command, Allied Powers; his command in Japan], sincerely, etc, etc'.

More unfortunately for MacArthur however, he ventured into expressing political opinions, and among other things insisted the Chicoms wouldn't enter the war, when they were already crossing the border, with some rapidly becoming POW's, NTM advancing his forces into North Korea, which Truman had not approved at the Wake Island conference, but acquiesced after the fact.

There is quite a bit more involving the use of nuclear weapons and the nationalist Chinese, but Truman was more than justified in relieving him, though some of his remembrances of MacArthur's supposed harshness to General Wainwright [who surrendered at Corregidor] for his TV series were flawed, but few were willing to point that out because 'Truman always told the truth'.

L


cthia wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:**quote="cthia"**
You know, that half-pay status crap always made me consider the possibility of that happening to the US. Could our best Naval officer be beached in the middle of an important war, for something just as politically poignant?
Don't know about our Navy, but General MacArthur was rather famously fired by President Truman during the Korean War.

Being wrong about the changes of China intervening and then disputes about how to prosecute the war. (MacArthur wanted to nuke China plus pull the Chinese Nationalist government in Taiwan into it. Truman vetoed that; forcefully)

MacArthur was very popular and Truman's action wasn't; at least at the time. But I don't know if something similar could happen for purely personal dislikes or domestic politics.

Thanks for the filler Johnathan. I knew that he was fired, I heard my sister and some of her 'politicos' friends discussing something once when it came up. She said that MacArthur didn't respect the President and in many ways acted as if he was the President. Of course that was all topical ointment. I didn't remain anywhere near that discussion to hear her out. They discuss politics for hours![/quote]
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:48 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

lyonheart wrote:Hi Cthia,

MacArthur didn't act like he was president, but he disregarded presidential wishes and desires, NTM 'misinforming' him of his intentions, which is rather a bad no-no for an officer in a democratic country, though the fate of someone doing that in an autocratic country is far worse.

MacArthur had a history of talking down to the senior US Army officers in the Pentagon for years, who were now his ostensible superiors but who had been very junior to him when he went to the Philippines before WW2, which my dad who was on MacArthur's staff at the time in Japan witnessed; 'advising them that their rules and regulations were faulty, so he and everyone in his command would be doing something different along these lines-, and you and the rest of the army might want to change and do the same as we are in SCAP [Supreme Command, Allied Powers; his command in Japan], sincerely, etc, etc'.

More unfortunately for MacArthur however, he ventured into expressing political opinions, and among other things insisted the Chicoms wouldn't enter the war, when they were already crossing the border, with some rapidly becoming POW's, NTM advancing his forces into North Korea, which Truman had not approved at the Wake Island conference, but acquiesced after the fact.

There is quite a bit more involving the use of nuclear weapons and the nationalist Chinese, but Truman was more than justified in relieving him, though some of his remembrances of MacArthur's supposed harshness to General Wainwright [who surrendered at Corregidor] for his TV series were flawed, but few were willing to point that out because 'Truman always told the truth'.

L


cthia wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:**quote="cthia"**
You know, that half-pay status crap always made me consider the possibility of that happening to the US. Could our best Naval officer be beached in the middle of an important war, for something just as politically poignant?
Don't know about our Navy, but General MacArthur was rather famously fired by President Truman during the Korean War.

Being wrong about the changes of China intervening and then disputes about how to prosecute the war. (MacArthur wanted to nuke China plus pull the Chinese Nationalist government in Taiwan into it. Truman vetoed that; forcefully)

MacArthur was very popular and Truman's action wasn't; at least at the time. But I don't know if something similar could happen for purely personal dislikes or domestic politics.

Cthia wrote:
Thanks for the filler Johnathan. I knew that he was fired, I heard my sister and some of her 'politicos' friends discussing something once when it came up. She said that MacArthur didn't respect the President and in many ways acted as if he was the President. Of course that was all topical ointment. I didn't remain anywhere near that discussion to hear her out. They discuss politics for hours!

I simply think the whole thing is sad. He's thought of as a military genius. My sister said that his genius bordered insanity. I personally think MacArthur felt that he was intellectually superior to everyone.

My niece says that a swollen ego causes an enlarged head which results in a loss of intelligence due to the shrinking brain to head ratio. :lol:

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:55 pm

lyonheart
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4853
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi Cthia,

It doesn't sound like your sister and her friends might be as informed as she thinks. ;)

MacArthur certainly had an ego but he certainly wasn't crazy, and he could be brilliant when he wanted to be, including avoiding making a decision even when pressed by his staff.

After his speech failed at the republican convention, some of Ike's buddies were making some jokes at MacArthur's expense, Eisenhower responded by pointing out if MacArthur came through the room's door, look them in the eye and tell them all to follow him, they would all get up and follow him without a question or a murmur, despite the fact they were all now civilians. :lol:

I've related some examples of MacArthur's ego in Japan over the years here, but space and time don't permit an extended rehash here.

L


cthia wrote:**quote="lyonheart"**Hi Cthia,

MacArthur didn't act like he was president, but he disregarded presidential wishes and desires, NTM 'misinforming' him of his intentions, which is rather a bad no-no for an officer in a democratic country, though the fate of someone doing that in an autocratic country is far worse.

MacArthur had a history of talking down to the senior US Army officers in the Pentagon for years, who were now his ostensible superiors but who had been very junior to him when he went to the Philippines before WW2, which my dad who was on MacArthur's staff at the time in Japan witnessed; 'advising them that their rules and regulations were faulty, so he and everyone in his command would be doing something different along these lines-, and you and the rest of the army might want to change and do the same as we are in SCAP [Supreme Command, Allied Powers; his command in Japan], sincerely, etc, etc'.

More unfortunately for MacArthur however, he ventured into expressing political opinions, and among other things insisted the Chicoms wouldn't enter the war, when they were already crossing the border, with some rapidly becoming POW's, NTM advancing his forces into North Korea, which Truman had not approved at the Wake Island conference, but acquiesced after the fact.

There is quite a bit more involving the use of nuclear weapons and the nationalist Chinese, but Truman was more than justified in relieving him, though some of his remembrances of MacArthur's supposed harshness to General Wainwright [who surrendered at Corregidor] for his TV series were flawed, but few were willing to point that out because 'Truman always told the truth'.

L


cthia wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:**quote="cthia"**
You know, that half-pay status crap always made me consider the possibility of that happening to the US. Could our best Naval officer be beached in the middle of an important war, for something just as politically poignant?
Don't know about our Navy, but General MacArthur was rather famously fired by President Truman during the Korean War.

Being wrong about the changes of China intervening and then disputes about how to prosecute the war. (MacArthur wanted to nuke China plus pull the Chinese Nationalist government in Taiwan into it. Truman vetoed that; forcefully)

MacArthur was very popular and Truman's action wasn't; at least at the time. But I don't know if something similar could happen for purely personal dislikes or domestic politics.**quote**
**quote="Cthia"**

Thanks for the filler Johnathan. I knew that he was fired, I heard my sister and some of her 'politicos' friends discussing something once when it came up. She said that MacArthur didn't respect the President and in many ways acted as if he was the President. Of course that was all topical ointment. I didn't remain anywhere near that discussion to hear her out. They discuss politics for hours!**quote**
I simply think the whole thing is sad. He's thought of as a military genius. My sister said that his genius bordered insanity. I personally think MacArthur felt that he was intellectually superior to everyone.

My niece says that a swollen ego causes an enlarged head which results in a loss of intelligence due to the shrinking brain to head ratio. :lol:**quote**
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by roseandheather   » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:23 pm

roseandheather
Admiral

Posts: 2056
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:39 pm
Location: Republic of Haven

cthia wrote:I always understood why she did it. Just amazed me that she could do it. Her stomach? Her entire soul must have curdled...her soul must have been like buttermilk. My niece always said that she gave a new meaning to 'take one for the team.' I always got the impression that at the end of the day, only her relationship with Giscard kept her sane. Oh to what heights she could have soared had he not died. I simply cannot wait to see her portrayed onscreen. Look and all! He died with Eloi— on his lips. What the quintessential love story.


And that, cthia, is why I love her more than I love any other female character in the Honorverse (yes, even more than Estelle, albeit barely - not that Essie needs to know!!) - and why I want to wrap her up in a ginormous hug forever and make all the pain go away. (And, y'know, serve her to the end of my days. If a Grayson could work for the Republic's President while marrying a Manticoran - hi, Allen! - I'd manage it.)

(We won't talk about the fanmix I'm working on in honor of Javier and Eloise, okay? Okay.)

*reaches for next box of tissues*
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
Top

Return to Honorverse