Solly Fleet Advancements

munroburton wrote:Problem with that is, if you start killing in large numbers, people who suspect they're on the list will Do Something. If we're talking Battle Fleet officers, they have quite a lot of resources with which to resist, given how intertwined all the family links are. Doing so could easily trigger a civil war between the Mandarins and the Admiralty.

Strangely, I'm trying to prevent them from getting killed ...

Adopt "X-Prizes" as exposed by Jerry Pournelle.

Offer One Trillion SL credits to whoever develops a two stage MDM.

Offer One Hundred Billion SL credits to whoever develops an FTL comm that is reasonably compact (LAC sized) and has decent bandwidth.

An SD(P) design is very obvious and requires no fundamental technology advances. Begin design for massively oversized missiles NOW.

If no viable MDM is developed, massively upsize the Cataphract two stage missile.

Remember; the SL does not have to equal RMN technology. Just get close enough that they can be overwhelmed by superior numbers.

kzt wrote:

stewart wrote:This is ASSUMING that the local SDF's would be willing to reveal their local improvements and capabilities.
SLN FF and BF "may" consider a capable SDF to be a worrisome topic and a potential threat.

You won't get any info if you don't ask. And carrying a big box of cash to give out to interesting projects might help, as well as the offer to do large scale license.

namelessfly wrote:Remember; the SL does not have to equal RMN technology. Just get close enough that they can be overwhelmed by superior numbers.

It also needs to survive long enough to actually have superior numbers. With all existing SLN yards building all-out, I don't think they could come close to out-producing Haven (let alone the Grand Alliance). They've got to build up new yards (or convert civilian yards to military and possibly repurpose non-SLN military) first.

crewdude48 wrote:
Yes, but IIRC, all of those strikes were done at the request of the local government. Not only does that by definition not fall under the edict, the local government held the orbitals, and the rebels did not surrender, allowing a strike under the edict. Or did I miss some?

Whitecold wrote:
You're allowed to destroy enemy forces using KE strikes even if it entails civilian casualties. It doesn't mean you can go eradicating cities as object lessons.

Jonathan_S wrote:True. But they're probably not violating the Edict itself. Violating some part of their equivalent to the UCMJ, yes. The Edict, no.
(at least in my opinion)

Well, for what it's worth, Victor Cachat disagrees. In a discussion in Cauldron, he asserts that indiscriminate use of KEWs by a government against rebels would be a "clear--rather massive, in fact--violation of the Eridani Edict". The guy he's talking to says it wouldn't, and they agree that the Sollies wouldn't take any action.

namelessfly wrote:Adopt "X-Prizes" as exposed by Jerry Pournelle.

Offer One Trillion SL credits to whoever develops a two stage MDM.

Offer One Hundred Billion SL credits to whoever develops an FTL comm that is reasonably compact (LAC sized) and has decent bandwidth.

An SD(P) design is very obvious and requires no fundamental technology advances. Begin design for massively oversized missiles NOW.

If no viable MDM is developed, massively upsize the Cataphract two stage missile.

Remember; the SL does not have to equal RMN technology. Just get close enough that they can be overwhelmed by superior numbers.

Other than designing and building SLN SD(P)s nothing you've suggested addresses the SLN's defensive problems. They need some cheap, fast way to augment their defensive fire and ECM. Perhaps dedicating 50-75% of attacking ships as counter-missile batteries and turn ALL of their armament to missile defense? An entire broadside of CM canister from a SD should come close to matching GA defensive capabilities -- even if they have to rotate command links through ten or twelve CM/link.

The Cataphract's main utility is that it can be fired from existing tubes or manageable pods. Massively up-sizing that missile would be counter-productive in the short-term -- and the SL doesn't have much of a long-term in its future.

A quick and dirty solution would be to expand the multistage concept to three or four stage missiles fired from pods with command-multiplier processors (a la Apollo). Take Technodyne's System Defense DDM pod and mount a Cataphract or Cataphract sprint-stage on it and replace one missile with a command multiplier/tactical AI. Miniturized FTL command and control is probably too far in the SL's future, but a three or four-stage system defense pod with command multiplier would go a long way towards protecting SL systems. A lower endurance version carted around by "arsenal ships" in company with SD squadrons would provide needed offensive punch.

Still, the first step will have to be the biggest clue-stick ever devised to shift Sollie assumptions of superiority and "not-invented-here" syndrome.

Guys, are you seriously proposing this is where the series is going?

For example, will the SL have a trillion credits to offer when the excise tax revenue has collapsed because the MMM has left the SL, while the OFS fees are also about to disappear?

Given how long it took to assemble Filaretta's fleet even with technically illegal pre-positioning, the idea that the SLN etc can change what's about to happen in just two years has taken this thread from silly to plain stupid ignorance.

Despite all the disasters the same idiots are still running the SLN, and we have no indication they're going to change anything anytime soon regardless of all the posting about pulsar darts etc.

The GA has yet to truly attack, and do you suppose they might, thanks to the MMM, have a better idea of who is doing serious R&D among the SDF's, as actually hinted in the textev?

When the GA does attack the SLN, it won't just destroy the reserve fleets, but the ability to contact other systems; if a message to share your secret SDF tech with the SLN with the promise of a trillion SL credits arrives via a media ship, ie not a SLN warship, because most have been destroyed or stuck inside system H-L's because they can't get close to the H-L from planetary orbit without giving themselves away to the remaining GA pickets after they destroyed the SLN ships and any potential threatening space infrastructure, would you believe the SL is doing well enough to spare the cash, let alone going to win?

Nor will the local system have much ability to do any serious R&D since the GA pickets will be monitoring the systems afterward, so your critical R&D testing will have evaporated as well.

This seems more like deliberate self delusion, worse than day dreaming; fine on your own time, but to share it?

L

namelessfly wrote:Adopt "X-Prizes" as exposed by Jerry Pournelle.

Offer One Trillion SL credits to whoever develops a two stage MDM.

Offer One Hundred Billion SL credits to whoever develops an FTL comm that is reasonably compact (LAC sized) and has decent bandwidth.

An SD(P) design is very obvious and requires no fundamental technology advances. Begin design for massively oversized missiles NOW.

If no viable MDM is developed, massively upsize the Cataphract two stage missile.

Remember; the SL does not have to equal RMN technology. Just get close enough that they can be overwhelmed by superior numbers.

kzt wrote:**quote="stewart"**
This is ASSUMING that the local SDF's would be willing to reveal their local improvements and capabilities.
SLN FF and BF "may" consider a capable SDF to be a worrisome topic and a potential threat.

You won't get any info if you don't ask. And carrying a big box of cash to give out to interesting projects might help, as well as the offer to do large scale license.

**/quote**

lyonheart wrote:Nor will the local system have much ability to do any serious R&D since the GA pickets will be monitoring the systems afterward, so your critical R&D testing will have evaporated as well.

So I have a math question for you:
A) How many SL member systems are there?
B)How many ships are you planning on assigning per system? (Remember that it takes about 3 ships to keep one station.)
C=AxBx3
D)How many ships are you planning to use to protect your core systems, maintain an effective striking force, and provide cover for the rest of your member systems?
E=C+D
F) How many hyper capable ships does the GA have?

How do these number compare?
F-E=?

kzt wrote:A) How many SL member systems are there?
...
F) How many hyper capable ships does the GA have?

How do these number compare?
F-E=?

lyonheart wrote:Nor will the local system have much ability to do any serious R&D since the GA pickets will be monitoring the systems afterward, so your critical R&D testing will have evaporated as well.

Where is the GA going to find enough ships to picket just the core worlds without worrying about the Shell worlds, OFS protectorates, and allied verge worlds like Monica?

Neither Manticore nor Haven ever had enough ships to picket the others entire sphere of influence, and the Solarian League is MUCH larger than either the SEM or Republic of Haven.

kzt wrote:A) How many SL member systems are there?
...
F) How many hyper capable ships does the GA have?

How do these number compare?
F-E=?

Is there any definitive quantification of the size of the Solarian League? I don't recall any hard numbers.

There is, however, ample evidence that the Solarian League is enormous.

Weird Harold wrote:Is there any definitive quantification of the size of the Solarian League? I don't recall any hard numbers.

1800-1900 full member systems IIRC. Plus the verge and other systems that are not full member systems.

Imaginos1892 wrote:The ISLN won't have multiple drive missiles any time soon. King Roger started Sonya Hemphill on that project back in the 1850's, and it took over 40 years to get the first prototypes deployed. It took the Sollies over 20 years just to copy the laser warhead! Also invented by Sonya Hemphill, by the way. Granted, they're a bit more...motivated today, but they can't just whip up a whole new technology because they really, really want it. The Cataphract is NOT a multi-drive missile; it's kluge with one missile carrying another one as a PAYLOAD. Not remotely in the same class as even a Mark 16.

For system defense missiles, size isn't an issue, so you can stack as many drives as you like. Though that leaves the problem of hitting what you're aiming at, at extended range.

For FTL communications, everybody knows how to send signals by dialing a wedge up or down. But the bandwidth is low -- at the smoke-signal level. Presumably they could improve that a fair amount with a little work.