Honorverse favorite one-liners

Caseyorourke wrote:I posted early on Terekhov's musing about Admiral Crandell "Having us right where we want her," but in the next few pages the conversation between Khumalo and Teekhov is classic military

"As you can see," Khumalo continued, "our friend Crandall at least has the virtue of punctuality."

"I suppose anyone has to have at least some positive qualities, Sir."

"You may have been disabused of that supposition by the time you're my age," Khumalo replied with a thin smile.

"At any rate, assuming she maintains her current acceleration and heads for a zero/zero intercept with the planet, she probably expects to be joining us here in about four hours. Of course, she doesn't expect any of us to still be alive when she gets here."

"Life is full of disappointments, Sir."

"The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."

Robert Lynd (224–154 Ante-Diaspora)

How do the odds really stack up, Amos?" "Not as well as I'd like, Sir," Parnell admitted. "The evidence suggests Manticore has a considerably greater technical advantage than anyone thought four years ago. I've personally debriefed the survivors from the Endicott-Yeltsin operation. None of our people were involved in the final action there, and we don't have any hard data to support our analyses of what happened, but it's pretty clear the Manties took out a Sultan-class battlecruiser with only a heavy cruiser and a destroyer. Of course, the Masadans crewing Saladin were hardly up to our standards in terms of training and experience, but that's still a disturbing indication of our hardware's relative capabilities. On the basis of what happened to Saladin and reports of survivors from the earlier actions, we're estimating that, ton-for-ton, their technical superiority probably gives their units a twenty to thirty percent edge over our own."

cthia wrote:The Short Victorious War

How do the odds really stack up, Amos?" "Not as well as I'd like, Sir," Parnell admitted. "The evidence suggests Manticore has a considerably greater technical advantage than anyone thought four years ago. I've personally debriefed the survivors from the Endicott-Yeltsin operation. None of our people were involved in the final action there, and we don't have any hard data to support our analyses of what happened, but it's pretty clear the Manties took out a Sultan-class battlecruiser with only a heavy cruiser and a destroyer. Of course, the Masadans crewing Saladin were hardly up to our standards in terms of training and experience, but that's still a disturbing indication of our hardware's relative capabilities. On the basis of what happened to Saladin and reports of survivors from the earlier actions, we're estimating that, ton-for-ton, their technical superiority probably gives their units a twenty to thirty percent edge over our own."

bold print mine, for emphasis.

I always wondered about the outcome if the Havenites had not jumped ship. Anyone thinks Honor still would have won?

cthia wrote:The Short Victorious War

How do the odds really stack up, Amos?" "Not as well as I'd like, Sir," Parnell admitted. "The evidence suggests Manticore has a considerably greater technical advantage than anyone thought four years ago. I've personally debriefed the survivors from the Endicott-Yeltsin operation. None of our people were involved in the final action there, and we don't have any hard data to support our analyses of what happened, but it's pretty clear the Manties took out a Sultan-class battlecruiser with only a heavy cruiser and a destroyer. Of course, the Masadans crewing Saladin were hardly up to our standards in terms of training and experience, but that's still a disturbing indication of our hardware's relative capabilities. On the basis of what happened to Saladin and reports of survivors from the earlier actions, we're estimating that, ton-for-ton, their technical superiority probably gives their units a twenty to thirty percent edge over our own."

bold print mine, for emphasis.

I always wondered about the outcome if the Havenites had not jumped ship. Anyone thinks Honor still would have won?

Jonathan_S wrote:No.
She'd have hurt them more than they expected, but in competent hands (and Yu was more than competent) a Sultan-class is more than tough enough to bull right through anything a Star Knight can throw in the way of missiles and crush her in energy range. (Assuming you don't get a lucky hit or two and cripple her before you get there)

The differences in firepower and defense are just too large for even an amazing tactician to overcome.

Remember that, even against the Masadans who screwed up by the numbers, Honor didn't expect to survive her final attack. It was only their forced error, in response to White Haven's very long range ballistic fire, that allowed her to survive. Against anyone better than them...

Jonathan_S wrote:
No.
She'd have hurt them more than they expected, but in competent hands (and Yu was more than competent) a Sultan-class is more than tough enough to bull right through anything a Star Knight can throw in the way of missiles and crush her in energy range. (Assuming you don't get a lucky hit or two and cripple her before you get there)

The differences in firepower and defense are just too large for even an amazing tactician to overcome.

Remember that, even against the Masadans who screwed up by the numbers, Honor didn't expect to survive her final attack. It was only their forced error, in response to White Haven's very long range ballistic fire, that allowed her to survive. Against anyone better than them...

cthia wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:
No.
She'd have hurt them more than they expected, but in competent hands (and Yu was more than competent) a Sultan-class is more than tough enough to bull right through anything a Star Knight can throw in the way of missiles and crush her in energy range. (Assuming you don't get a lucky hit or two and cripple her before you get there)

The differences in firepower and defense are just too large for even an amazing tactician to overcome.

Remember that, even against the Masadans who screwed up by the numbers, Honor didn't expect to survive her final attack. It was only their forced error, in response to White Haven's very long range ballistic fire, that allowed her to survive. Against anyone better than them...

I agree. Except...you give Honor more of a chance than I. I don't think Honor could have even hurt them (more than Yu thought). The difference in fire power was just too great...but...with Yu at the helm, Honor would have been burnt toast. IMIMO (in my inexpert military opinion) She'd have gotten in a few hits, but if Yu would have fought like we know he can...well, how do you like your toast?!

And the hits Honor would have gotten in...

No, but really. I agree. Honor wouldn't have stood a chance. She almost lost against the Masadans!

I thought Saladin was an impressive piece of hardware.

Jonathan_S wrote:
No.
She'd have hurt them more than they expected, but in competent hands (and Yu was more than competent) a Sultan-class is more than tough enough to bull right through anything a Star Knight can throw in the way of missiles and crush her in energy range. (Assuming you don't get a lucky hit or two and cripple her before you get there)

The differences in firepower and defense are just too large for even an amazing tactician to overcome.

Remember that, even against the Masadans who screwed up by the numbers, Honor didn't expect to survive her final attack. It was only their forced error, in response to White Haven's very long range ballistic fire, that allowed her to survive. Against anyone better than them...

Cthia wrote:
I agree. Except...you give Honor more of a chance than I. I don't think Honor could have even hurt them (more than Yu thought). The difference in fire power was just too great...but...with Yu at the helm, Honor would have been burnt toast. IMIMO (in my inexpert military opinion) She'd have gotten in a few hits, but if Yu would have fought like we know he can...well, how do you like your toast?!

And the hits Honor would have gotten in...

No, but really. I agree. Honor wouldn't have stood a chance. She almost lost against the Masadans!

I thought Saladin was an impressive piece of hardware.

Johnathan_S wrote:
Yeah, well when you're roughly 3x the size, have more (and heavier) missiles, 75% more CMs, 50% more PDLCs (and if I'm deciphering Jayne's correctly each of the Sultan's PDLCs has an additional emitter. the BC seems to have 12 6-laser clusters on each broadside; vs the CA's 8 5-laser clusters broadside.)

Add the more extensive armor (and likely more powerful sidewall emitters) and it's a very unfair fight.

That said, a Star Knight is a more missile optimized design than a Sultan, and Manticore's edge in missile combat at that point was noticeable. I do think Honor could have landed more hits against Yu that he'd expect. Not enough to give her a chance, mind you, but more that a BC would expect to take from a single CA.



As for what 3 or 4 Star Knights together might have managed against a single Sultan... That has the potential to be a surprising upset against the Peeps.

kenl511 wrote:Some more from Abbigail on Shadow of Freedom:


"You Sollie's command of our common language never ceases to amaze me."

"You need to work up a better grade of threat. I don't know, maybe grow a moustache so you can twirl it."