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"Marine Carrier"

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Re: "Marine Carrier"
Post by Rakhmamort   » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:38 am

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The E wrote:
Rakhmamort wrote:They are not interested in doing that, well and good. But things never go as planned. They have the moral obligation to keep order in the planets that they 'liberate' from SL. Most likely there will be factions in the planets they are going to get, which means there is going to be fighting if not outright chaos once they kick out the League. Do you really think that RMN/GA is just going to leave a planet with millions if not billions of people going to hell in a handbasket because their only goal is to kick the OFS/SLN out?


There is always going to be upheaval and score-settling going on once the OFS overlords are removed from the picture. And yes, there is an obligation on the part of the GA to make sure that newly liberated worlds do not go completely insane.

Which is why current policy, as of the latest books, seems to boil down to only liberating those systems that specifically ask to be liberated.
As the second Havenite War showed, the strategic thinking of the GA leadership is no longer concerned with system-by-system advances or securing flank coverage. As such, the number of systems that have to be attacked is reduced drastically, and as a result, the number of personnel needed for garrison duty reduced to much lower proportional levels than what was deemed necessary during the first Havenite war.

In addition, consider that among the GA, there's one Star Nation who kinda specializes in stabilizing planets. It's not like the RMN has to do the entire job alone, after all.


And you don't think these OFS protectorates isn't going to ask the GA to intervene once they see the GA taking system after system after system?

Yes the GA can 'refuse' who to 'save' but that is stil going to be a 'black' mark on them especially if OFS learns of the request and makes a planet or 2 examples of what happens when your knights in shining armor do not arrive to save the day.
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Re: "Marine Carrier"
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:41 am

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The E wrote:
chrisd wrote:Is it not time now for the RMN to be developing and deploying the equivalent of the former HMS Bulwark, a Light Fleet carrier converted to a Commando Assault Ship?


Well, as we know from the Jayne's excerpt in House of Steel, the RMN already has several dedicated Marine assault ship classes in service (The Guadalcanal and Rorke's Drift classes, as well as the planned LPX class.

So yeah, they're already doing exactly that.
Not to mention the smaller Kamerling-class system control cruiser (three companies of Marines) and Broadsword-class Marine operations support cruiser (full battalion of Marines reinforced with a single assault company)

They've got Marine transport and control ships. But, since there aren't enough to attach to every single CruRon, cruisers and destroyers will still find themselves in situations where they need Marines and they only have their integral, on-board, detachment. (And since cruisers often get split up in divisions, pairs, or singletons even one Marine Cruiser per squadron wouldn't be enough to ensure they were always where they were needed)

It's those surprise situations that show the limitations of the reduced ship compliments. Anytime the Manties plan a Marine operation they've got the ability to send sufficient Marines.
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Re: "Marine Carrier"
Post by jgnfld   » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:49 am

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SWM wrote:...
There is no evidence that Manticore intends to "hold on to newly captured planets" at all.


There IS evidence they need at least some amount of raw manpower at times at distant locations like during the aftermath of fleet actions with the SLN and cleaning up/protecting the good guys in actions in the Talbott Cluster, Verge, etc. It will be interesting to see how RFC/MWW goes with this. Not too large, but fast personnel carriers might be one route.
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Re: "Marine Carrier"
Post by chrisd   » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:36 am

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[quote="The E]Well, as we know from the Jayne's excerpt in House of Steel, the RMN already has several dedicated Marine assault ship classes in service (The Guadalcanal and Rorke's Drift classes, as well as the planned LPX class.

So yeah, they're already doing exactly that.

[/quote]

Apologies, but I do not yet have "House of Steel" so I have missed that information.

I was sure that someone must have come up with this or a similar idea, just that I had never come across it.
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Re: "Marine Carrier"
Post by SWM   » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:57 pm

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jgnfld wrote:
SWM wrote:...
There is no evidence that Manticore intends to "hold on to newly captured planets" at all.


There IS evidence they need at least some amount of raw manpower at times at distant locations like during the aftermath of fleet actions with the SLN and cleaning up/protecting the good guys in actions in the Talbott Cluster, Verge, etc. It will be interesting to see how RFC/MWW goes with this. Not too large, but fast personnel carriers might be one route.

Yes, I agree they need a certain amount of manpower. That is one (minor) reason Manticore is aiming for bigger light ships. The Roland class does not have any marines, but the replacement ship will. We can expect that new Manticoran designs will carry marine complements similar to what they had before the war.
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Re: "Marine Carrier"
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:10 pm

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SWM wrote:Yes, I agree they need a certain amount of manpower. That is one (minor) reason Manticore is aiming for bigger light ships. The Roland class does not have any marines, but the replacement ship will. We can expect that new Manticoran designs will carry marine complements similar to what they had before the war.
Personally I'm guessing that the larger Marine compliments on the light ships will be closer to attached supernumerary units than to anything near as integrated into the ship's company as the pre-war Marine crews were.

Designing the ships so they can operate and fight with only their naval crew and their 'minimum' marine unit allows Manticore to reduce crew counts on light ships which are tasked to work directly with larger fleets, or within systems that have native marine or army forces (where there's are plenty of other marines around within needing to pull from the DDs - CAs).

But those ships would still have room and facilities to support the larger marine units which could then be assigned if and when the ship was tasked for more independent operations.
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Re: "Marine Carrier"
Post by crewdude48   » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:34 pm

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Dafmeister wrote:Talbot (how many t's?) Quadrant.


Just count the t's at the end. Talbot the planet was introduced first. Talbott the cluster was introduced second.
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Re: "Marine Carrier"
Post by Theemile   » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:57 pm

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crewdude48 wrote:
Dafmeister wrote:Talbot (how many t's?) Quadrant.


Just count the t's at the end. Talbot the planet was introduced first. Talbott the cluster was introduced second.


Ahhh - A good way to remember is Series introduction order = # of Ts

System of Talbot - 1
Talbott Quadrant - 2
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Re: "Marine Carrier"
Post by saber964   » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:58 pm

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IIRC it was stated in SoF that most of the Marines and Army units were sent to Silesia, because of the rampant corruption and general thugery by the local police and sillie military units and they had to be replaced.
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Re: "Marine Carrier"
Post by Dafmeister   » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:00 pm

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saber964 wrote:IIRC it was stated in SoF that most of the Marines and Army units were sent to Silesia, because of the rampant corruption and general thugery by the local police and sillie military units and they had to be replaced.


On the other hand, Haven would have captured huge numbers of Manticoran Army troops when they took back the occupied systems after Thunderbolt. Since the alliance, those PoWs (all fully trained Army personnel) will be heading back to Manticore in short order, assuming they're not home already.
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