Some more about of the biological warfare

Yes, it's me again and me again with ominous thoughts. In particular, about biological warfare (what to do, I am a geneticist by profession!)

Proposal for a biological attack against the Church's food resources wasn't the best one, i admit. But let's consider the other?

1) Biological attack against the horses and draft dragons on the mainland. By using the OWL's remotes as "fleas", we could create a nice, perfectly controlled pandemy, that crippled the Church's supply of draft animals.

Of course, it is necessary to take measures, so the pandemic wood look like a completely natural phenomenon - a "pure coincidence, damned heretics just first "invented" how to cure the problem"

2) Biological attack against industrial crops. Flax, hemp, other non-edible, but the necessary objects. The army without pants will be quite clearly not too efficient, as well as fleet without the ropes.

3) Biological attack directly against the Church's army. Infect the soldiers with something certainly not fatal, but incapacitating for sometime. One-off measure to create a decisive advantage before the critical battle.

Well?

I think that while morally and ethically "bio" warfare that is actually controlled by SNARC remotes is okay, there are practical difficulties.

The main one is that it helps win the war - but it doesn't help to instill the attitude change and social upheaval that Merlin needs to happen. For all the appalling human cost, actually prolonging the war to its natural end will break the Safeholdian social matrix up more, cementing innovation and industry as the roads to success.

Also, almost all of Merlin and OWLs interventions are in the form of information. With some very personalised exceptions (Excalibur, nanites, bullet-proof clothing), and some individual events that are kept very hush-hush (the attack on Sharleyan in that monastery, Merlin's taking out semaphore stations for the Canal Raid) what they are mostly doing is providing key pieces of information. The acting on their information is done by ordinary Safeholdians with ordinary capabilities.
Even the posting of broadsheets with information by the SNARCs is another kind of information flow. I don't see Merlin changing the character of his intervention at this stage.

Did you even bother to read RFC's response the last time you brought up this terrible idea? You cannot control how a biological weapon is applied and spread. Once let out of lab conditions, the untold billions of reproducing viruses or bacterium are going to mutate. It will happen, no matter how deluded you think you can control it. That means it is sooner or later going to kill large swaths of people, including the Charisian Empire.

Not only that, killing all the draft animals is just going to end up killing as many people as your original idea of unleashing a plague. Destroying the planet's ability for farmers to work their fields and move foodstuffs overland is as certain a death as your engineered plague or famine from before.

Potato wrote:Did you even bother to read RFC's response the last time you brought up this terrible idea? You cannot control how a biological weapon is applied and spread. Once let out of lab conditions, the untold billions of reproducing viruses or bacterium are going to mutate. It will happen, no matter how deluded you think you can control it. That means it is sooner or later going to kill large swaths of people, including the Charisian Empire.

Not only that, killing all the draft animals is just going to end up killing as many people as your original idea of unleashing a plague. Destroying the planet's ability for farmers to work their fields and move foodstuffs overland is as certain a death as your engineered plague or famine from before.

Sigh. Dear Potato, would you be so kind as to first read what you are replying to?

I'm the geneticist. And I understand perfectly what is possible and what is not in this science. It IS possible to create a virus with a sufficient number of "safety mechanisms", so the mutation of ALL of them would took longer than the existence of the humankind.

Not only that, killing all the draft animals is just going to end up killing as many people as your original idea of unleashing a plague.

Are You REALLY know how to read? Honestly, I doubt it.

By using the OWL's remotes as "fleas", we could create a nice, perfectly controlled pandemy, that crippled the Church's supply of draft animals.

The idea is to use a virus that is transmitted through the remotes ONLY. I.e. the remotes should "bite" animals, infecting them with the virus.

You are the expert on what is possible with genetics. But David is the expert on Safehold, and he has made it pretty clear that he is not interested in introducing any kind of biological warfare on Safehold.

SWM wrote:You are the expert on what is possible with genetics. But David is the expert on Safehold, and he has made it pretty clear that he is not interested in introducing any kind of biological warfare on Safehold.

Having remotes poison the draft animals directly would produce much the same effect too (and more controllable)- you wouldn't even need to kill them, just debilitate them enough so they either can't work or become unmanageable ( wonder what a dragon in heat and on LSD is like...). Spraying something on the feed could have much the same effect, Clintyn will compound the issue looking for saboteurs and destroy the armies moral...

AirTech wrote:

SWM wrote:You are the expert on what is possible with genetics. But David is the expert on Safehold, and he has made it pretty clear that he is not interested in introducing any kind of biological warfare on Safehold.

Having remotes poison the draft animals directly would produce much the same effect too (and more controllable)- you wouldn't even need to kill them, just debilitate them enough so they either can't work or become unmanageable ( wonder what a dragon in heat and on LSD is like...). Spraying something on the feed could have much the same effect, Clintyn will compound the issue looking for saboteurs and destroy the armies moral...

Tactically, that will work. Consider the long term or strategic consequences. So far Cahris has been VERY selective in its aggression. They have had issues with the CoGA/KotTL for launching their invasion 6 years ago. They responded directly to CoGA be denouncing their actions and rejecting their authority. Delfarahk via the agency of the Inquisition massacred Charisian citizens. The ICN responded by attacking a selected part of Ferayd and allowed the city to evacuate the area before it was destroyed. In Corisande Sharley went out of her way to show clemency for convicted and guilty traitors because of extenuating circumstances.

Over and over again, the EoC has gone well out of its way to show a willingness to fight with brutal effeciency. At the same time, they have extended an extraordinary effort to target their enemies. The purpose is not to cause as much damage as possible to the enemy but to creat conditions where that enemy will be willing to stop fighting. By targeting their aggression, the EoC is attacking only those who attack them and those that are most instrumental at continuing the jihad. Those nations and people who have not commited to the jihad have been spared by the EoC in the hopes that those people whereever they may live who have not commited against Charis continue to refrain from doing so.

If all sorts of plague or plaguelike effects are introduced against those uncommited people, will they remain uncommited? The CoGA is alread claiming Merlyn is a demon. Should pestilence arise in the realms of the Godly, wouldn't that automatically be blamed on the fallen archangels who are credited as the cause of pestilence? Wouldn't they be right? That Charis did visit pestilence upon them just like the demons they believe in?Doesn't that also mean Merlyn is more likely to be seen as a demon and the EoC as servants of the Dark? How many perviouly on the fence people like the Raven Lords will remain there once this "proof" of consorting with evil is spread throughout Safehold? How many Charisians will remain staunch supporters and develop no doubts about the rightousness of their cause?

All in all, engaging in what is considered by too many Safeholdians as evil is not worth the risk because in the end the truth will come out.

PeterZ wrote:All in all, engaging in what is considered by too many Safeholdians as evil is not worth the risk because in the end the truth will come out.

There's another good reason IMHO to avoid biological and/or chemical warfare. Cayleb and Sharleyan would I believe make every effort to avoid "collateral damage" if they did use bio/chem-warfare, can anyone imagine Clyntahn doing the same?

... and if Charis uses it then ultimately CoGA will, one way or another, learn to copy it whereas if Charis doesn't use it then it's unlikely that the idea will even occur to CoGA (and if it does occur I imagine 3 out of the Gang of Four will sit on Clyntahn to prevent it).

PalmerSperry wrote:

PeterZ wrote:All in all, engaging in what is considered by too many Safeholdians as evil is not worth the risk because in the end the truth will come out.

There's another good reason IMHO to avoid biological and/or chemical warfare. Cayleb and Sharleyan would I believe make every effort to avoid "collateral damage" if they did use bio/chem-warfare, can anyone imagine Clyntahn doing the same?

... and if Charis uses it then ultimately CoGA will, one way or another, learn to copy it whereas if Charis doesn't use it then it's unlikely that the idea will even occur to CoGA (and if it does occur I imagine 3 out of the Gang of Four will sit on Clyntahn to prevent it).

Is there anyone in the Group of 4 who could sit on Clyntahn at this point? I doubt it. I do concur with the notion that it would be unwise to give Clyntahn ideas.

Don

Going to mutate? The way smallpox (did not, as it happens) mutated, so as to resist immunization? Going to mutate is a trope, but not necessarily true.

Potato wrote:Did you even bother to read RFC's response the last time you brought up this terrible idea? You cannot control how a biological weapon is applied and spread. Once let out of lab conditions, the untold billions of reproducing viruses or bacterium are going to mutate. It will happen, no matter how deluded you think you can control it. That means it is sooner or later going to kill large swaths of people, including the Charisian Empire.

Not only that, killing all the draft animals is just going to end up killing as many people as your original idea of unleashing a plague. Destroying the planet's ability for farmers to work their fields and move foodstuffs overland is as certain a death as your engineered plague or famine from before.