Torpedoes

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Torpedoes
by cralkhi » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:25 pm
cralkhi Captain of the List Posts: 420 Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:27 am	Is there any chance Thirsk and co. could get a self-propelled torpedo working? It seems like the only thing that could realistically pose much of a problem for the Charisian navy at this point...
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Torpedoes

by cralkhi » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:25 pm

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Is there any chance Thirsk and co. could get a self-propelled torpedo working? It seems like the only thing that could realistically pose much of a problem for the Charisian navy at this point...

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Re: Torpedoes
by pokermind » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:02 pm
pokermind Fleet Admiral Posts: 4002 Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:58 am Location: Jerome, Idaho, USA	Given the COGA's non inovation philosophy I doubt it. Mines and spar torpedoes more likely IMO. Poker cralkhi wrote:Is there any chance Thirsk and co. could get a self-propelled torpedo working? It seems like the only thing that could realistically pose much of a problem for the Charisian navy at this point... CPO Poker Mind and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat. "Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: Torpedoes

by pokermind » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:02 pm

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Given the COGA's non inovation philosophy I doubt it. Mines and spar torpedoes more likely IMO.

Poker

cralkhi wrote:Is there any chance Thirsk and co. could get a self-propelled torpedo working? It seems like the only thing that could realistically pose much of a problem for the Charisian navy at this point...

CPO Poker Mind

and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.

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Re: Torpedoes
by Dilandu » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:38 am
Dilandu Admiral Posts: 2542 Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm Location: Russia	cralkhi wrote:Is there any chance Thirsk and co. could get a self-propelled torpedo working? It seems like the only thing that could realistically pose much of a problem for the Charisian navy at this point... It's theoretically possible that they could come to some sort of primitive Brennan-type torpedo, moved from coast by pulling a wire from the drum. ------------------------------ Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Torpedoes

by Dilandu » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:38 am

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cralkhi wrote:Is there any chance Thirsk and co. could get a self-propelled torpedo working? It seems like the only thing that could realistically pose much of a problem for the Charisian navy at this point...

It's theoretically possible that they could come to some sort of primitive Brennan-type torpedo, moved from coast by pulling a wire from the drum.

------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)

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Re: Torpedoes
by lyonheart » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:16 am
lyonheart Fleet Admiral Posts: 4853 Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm	Hi Dilandu, The Brennan has been discussed here before. It's extremely limited range of 2000 yards isn't much of a deterrent to a KH VII with 10" guns having a range of several times that. I think the Brennan torpedo is a little too complicated for Dohlar anytime soon, the Whitehead can also claim historical precedence, but again is too complicated for anyone still having trouble making lots of high quality steel. Among other things, the Brennan torpedo still requires steam engines NTM electricity, albeit outside the torpedo back on shore, with the required power apparently of up to 100 HP each mentioned in the Harvard book of 1899, but that's just one of the many technologies it requires, including electricity for the binocular and steam engine control system, besides high quality wire and all sorts of machine tools for very careful machining. The Brennan was arguably an obvious technological dead end, so I don't expect Charis to even begin to consider it; that nonetheless required tweaking of several already available mature technologies, which Dohlar doesn't and won't have. L Dilandu wrote: cralkhi wrote:Is there any chance Thirsk and co. could get a self-propelled torpedo working? It seems like the only thing that could realistically pose much of a problem for the Charisian navy at this point... It's theoretically possible that they could come to some sort of primitive Brennan-type torpedo, moved from coast by pulling a wire from the drum. Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Torpedoes

by lyonheart » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:16 am

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Hi Dilandu,

The Brennan has been discussed here before.

It's extremely limited range of 2000 yards isn't much of a deterrent to a KH VII with 10" guns having a range of several times that.

I think the Brennan torpedo is a little too complicated for Dohlar anytime soon, the Whitehead can also claim historical precedence, but again is too complicated for anyone still having trouble making lots of high quality steel.

Among other things, the Brennan torpedo still requires steam engines NTM electricity, albeit outside the torpedo back on shore, with the required power apparently of up to 100 HP each mentioned in the Harvard book of 1899, but that's just one of the many technologies it requires, including electricity for the binocular and steam engine control system, besides high quality wire and all sorts of machine tools for very careful machining.

The Brennan was arguably an obvious technological dead end, so I don't expect Charis to even begin to consider it; that nonetheless required tweaking of several already available mature technologies, which Dohlar doesn't and won't have.

L

Dilandu wrote:
cralkhi wrote:Is there any chance Thirsk and co. could get a self-propelled torpedo working? It seems like the only thing that could realistically pose much of a problem for the Charisian navy at this point...

It's theoretically possible that they could come to some sort of primitive Brennan-type torpedo, moved from coast by pulling a wire from the drum.

Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!

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Re: Torpedoes
by Dilandu » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:26 am
Dilandu Admiral Posts: 2542 Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm Location: Russia	It's extremely limited range of 2000 yards isn't much of a deterrent to a KH VII with 10" guns having a range of several times that. Well, of course you couldn't battle against a Mary-Sue! I was talking about something more primitive that actual Brennan, for the defense of narrows and rivers against invasion. Last edited by Dilandu on Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total. ------------------------------ Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Torpedoes

by Dilandu » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:26 am

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It's extremely limited range of 2000 yards isn't much of a deterrent to a KH VII with 10" guns having a range of several times that.

Well, of course you couldn't battle against a Mary-Sue!

I was talking about something more primitive that actual Brennan, for the defense of narrows and rivers against invasion.

Last edited by Dilandu on Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)

Top

Re: Torpedoes
by Thucydides » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:53 am
Thucydides Captain of the List Posts: 689 Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:15 am	Mythbusters once did a very entertaining show about an ancient Chinese rocket powered torpedo. One plunged into and under the water on firing, one flew through the air (essentially an unguided missile) and one (after a lot of tweaking) finally struck the target. To be fair, this was more of a kamikaze speedboat guided by wire(s) than what we would consider a torpedo. So there is a (very) theoretical possibility of some sort of torpedo like device being deployed in this war, although they would probably get more milage out of a "Stalin Organ" type multiple rocket launcher to try and bombard approaching ships. Black powder rockets are not all that difficult to make, and don't really need high tech materials (wood or even waxed cardboard will do for low power ones). The effects on men and horses are pretty dramatic, and certainly any Imperial ships or troops caught by these things would be quite nastily surprised.
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Re: Torpedoes

by Thucydides » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:53 am

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Mythbusters once did a very entertaining show about an ancient Chinese rocket powered torpedo. One plunged into and under the water on firing, one flew through the air (essentially an unguided missile) and one (after a lot of tweaking) finally struck the target. To be fair, this was more of a kamikaze speedboat guided by wire(s) than what we would consider a torpedo.

So there is a (very) theoretical possibility of some sort of torpedo like device being deployed in this war, although they would probably get more milage out of a "Stalin Organ" type multiple rocket launcher to try and bombard approaching ships. Black powder rockets are not all that difficult to make, and don't really need high tech materials (wood or even waxed cardboard will do for low power ones). The effects on men and horses are pretty dramatic, and certainly any Imperial ships or troops caught by these things would be quite nastily surprised.

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Re: Torpedoes
by Dilandu » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:12 am
Dilandu Admiral Posts: 2542 Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm Location: Russia	It may be usefull as a battlefield rocket artillery, but i doubt that it is possible to make a usefull rocket naval torpeod on that level. As i recall, there was something like that in XIX century, and it wasn't work well. ------------------------------ Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Torpedoes

by Dilandu » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:12 am

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It may be usefull as a battlefield rocket artillery, but i doubt that it is possible to make a usefull rocket naval torpeod on that level. As i recall, there was something like that in XIX century, and it wasn't work well.

------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)

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Re: Torpedoes
by Dilandu » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:15 am
Dilandu Admiral Posts: 2542 Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm Location: Russia	O, yes. I was right. The Cunningham rocket torpedo: http://www.navsea.navy.mil/nuwc/newport ... ingham.jpg And Barber rocket torpedo before that. ------------------------------ Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Torpedoes

by Dilandu » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:15 am

Dilandu
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
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O, yes. I was right. The Cunningham rocket torpedo:

http://www.navsea.navy.mil/nuwc/newport ... ingham.jpg

And Barber rocket torpedo before that.

------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)

Top

Re: Torpedoes
by AirTech » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:45 am
AirTech Captain of the List Posts: 476 Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:37 am Location: Deeeep South (Australia) (most of the time...)	cralkhi wrote:Is there any chance Thirsk and co. could get a self-propelled torpedo working? It seems like the only thing that could realistically pose much of a problem for the Charisian navy at this point... Magnetic or contact mines could be possible too. Magnetic influence mines could use bar magnets to trip a trigger on a cap and ball type action or alternatively a mechanical trigger could operate a lever on a similar mechanism. (this would require a competent clockmaker for the mechanism). A time fuse on a towed mine could be another option with either a boat doing the towing or a submerged pulley system. That assumes they don't go for the USS Cole option and don't just ram with an explosive laden row boat.
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Re: Torpedoes

by AirTech » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:45 am

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Location: Deeeep South (Australia) (most of the time...)

cralkhi wrote:Is there any chance Thirsk and co. could get a self-propelled torpedo working? It seems like the only thing that could realistically pose much of a problem for the Charisian navy at this point...

Magnetic or contact mines could be possible too. Magnetic influence mines could use bar magnets to trip a trigger on a cap and ball type action or alternatively a mechanical trigger could operate a lever on a similar mechanism. (this would require a competent clockmaker for the mechanism).
A time fuse on a towed mine could be another option with either a boat doing the towing or a submerged pulley system. That assumes they don't go for the USS Cole option and don't just ram with an explosive laden row boat.

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Re: Torpedoes
by lyonheart » Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:16 am
lyonheart Fleet Admiral Posts: 4853 Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm	Hi Dilandu, Rocket torpedoes have been around for some time, they've just never worked that well, as the Kursk demonstrated not too long ago. L Dilandu wrote:O, yes. I was right. The Cunningham rocket torpedo: http://www.navsea.navy.mil/nuwc/newport ... ingham.jpg And Barber rocket torpedo before that. Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Torpedoes

by lyonheart » Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:16 am

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Hi Dilandu,

Rocket torpedoes have been around for some time, they've just never worked that well, as the Kursk demonstrated not too long ago.

L

Dilandu wrote:O, yes. I was right. The Cunningham rocket torpedo:

http://www.navsea.navy.mil/nuwc/newport ... ingham.jpg

And Barber rocket torpedo before that.

Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!

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