SPOILER-Ahlverez's AAR : ie After Action Report, & Fyrmyn's

Howdy all!

While some think Ahlverez won't make it back to Dohlar, I don't think RFC would have invested so much face time in LaMA if he were toast so quickly in HFQ.

Of course, it's always possible with RFC that Thirsk will receive Ahlverez's apology second hand from his CoS, Lynkyn Lattymyr, but that's not the way I see things building in Dohlar.

Being the RDA's expeditionary CO, he should expect to make some kind of report to the king and army CO (Duke of Salthar?), and possibly the cabinet as well.

The Duke of Fern as Rahnyld's first minister needs to know what happened NTM what Ahlverez has learned so painfully, if Dohlar is to survive.

What are some of the lessons you think Ahlverez has learned?

For some possible background, I can't help wondering that Sulyvyn Fyrmyn report might actually be dictated or finished first since so much of his ministerial duties have been relieved by leaving the RDA's wounded for the ICA to care for, especially if it was mainly just copies of excepts from his own journal, which contain brief descriptions of the meetings he attended with Harless, Ahlverez's comments and his own observations on the campaign's progress.

He thus should have more time for composing his report first and the Go4 would certainly demand one, to at least cover the period he wasn't in contact with them if not including a review of the whole campaign.

I'm sure he'd tell Rainos, including updates on his progress and possibly checking some conclusions outside his expertise, but certainly not the whole thing.

What do you think Fyrmyn would emphasize in his report?

I suspect it might include Ahlverez's (and his) growing appreciation of the tactical changes of the new weapons, his attempts to work with Harless and how critical logistics are to any campaign's success and the pitiful nature of the IDA's that doomed the army once it left Thesmar.

While ignorant of the whole bit aware of some of the report, Rainos might be much more circumspect that a simple private message to to Duke Salthar, who he probably knows rather well, since regardless of how limited its intended readers are supposed to be, he knows copies will get into the hands of the inquisition and the Go4, where his will be compared to Fyrmyn's, and eventually to Desnar.

Given how important the first sentence and paragraph are, how should he begin?

Hint: blaming the Desnari for every thing right off won't help him very much.

Rather it might be far smarter to start of by praising the Desnari soldier as being as brave and as dedicated to the Jihad as any other.

"Whose physical and spiritual sacrifices for the Jihad ought to be known and lauded everywhere" might be a tad too thick however true, but it's in the right general direction.

He might then mention the company and regimental officers seemed basically competent and concerned for their men.

Then it might be okay to mention the average Desnari's devotion to duty was not matched by his general officers' concern and proficiency in taking care of their troops, but it might be better to set that statement up by suggesting Desnari generalship suffered more from its own (misguided) confidence in itself than its purely intellectual understanding of the new weapons.

Diplomacy and courtesy will be critical in getting his report accepted, especially in the temple by the Go4.

For example, he might praise Harless for never repeating a tactical mistake, yet detail how his overlooking the impending supply debacle doomed the AoS to considerable suffering regardless of what the ICA did after leaving Thesmar, and wondering if the IDA's logistical errors played as large a role in the 200 years the RSA continually defeated them as their battlefield errors.

He might point out his own errors and learning experiences comparing it to and complimenting Harless's quicker learning curve where possible.

While Rainos should remind his Dohlaran audience he had more rifles and cannon than Harless despite being half his army's size, he should emphasize the greatest difference between them was their respective supply organizations, and how fervently he gave thanks for his.

I've got quite a bit more, but its late and I should go to bed.

Please feel free to share your own insights and comments.

L

lyonheart wrote:Howdy all!

While some think Ahlverez won't make it back to Dohlar, I don't think RFC would have invested so much face time in LaMA if he were toast so quickly in HFQ.

=== SNIP ===

I suspect it might include Ahlverez's (and his) growing appreciation of the tactical changes of the new weapons, his attempts to work with Harless and how critical logistics are to any campaign's success and the pitiful nature of the IDA's that doomed the army once it left Thesmar.

While ignorant of the whole bit aware of some of the report, Rainos might be much more circumspect that a simple private message to to Duke Salthar, who he probably knows rather well, since regardless of how limited its intended readers are supposed to be, he knows copies will get into the hands of the inquisition and the Go4, where his will be compared to Fyrmyn's, and eventually to Desnar.

Given how important the first sentence and paragraph are, how should he begin?

Hint: blaming the Desnari for every thing right off won't help him very much.

Rather it might be far smarter to start of by praising the Desnari soldier as being as brave and as dedicated to the Jihad as any other.

"Whose physical and spiritual sacrifices for the Jihad ought to be known and lauded everywhere" might be a tad too thick however true, but it's in the right general direction.

He might then mention the company and regimental officers seemed basically competent and concerned for their men.

Then it might be okay to mention the average Desnari's devotion to duty was not matched by his general officers' concern and proficiency in taking care of their troops, but it might be better to set that statement up by suggesting Desnari generalship suffered more from its own (misguided) confidence in itself than its purely intellectual understanding of the new weapons.

=== SNIP ===

L

While I don't think that it was said explicitly, I get the impression that far more of the IDA nobility / senior officers were able to save their own bacon by mounting their well-fed horses and leaving a trail of dust.

A left-hand compliment by Ahlverez as to the well being of the senior staff's horses and carriages even this deep into the campaign as evidenced by their survival rate might leave a few marks.

I think Alvahrez is so mad he will be brutally blunt about Desnairi incompetence. He will spin it from the point of view of how much it's costing the Church in wasted opportunities, treasure, and especially in personnel, God's faithful children. "As a loyal son of the Church I cannot do anything but point out how all of this is harming the Jihad" etc etc. His Intendant will, now, back him all the way.

Randomiser wrote:I think Alvahrez is so mad he will be brutally blunt about Desnairi incompetence. He will spin it from the point of view of how much it's costing the Church in wasted opportunities, treasure, and especially in personnel, God's faithful children. "As a loyal son of the Church I cannot do anything but point out how all of this is harming the Jihad" etc etc. His Intendant will, now, back him all the way.

I don't have a whole lot of faith in Dohlarian reaction to Ahlveres' afteraction report. Thirsk was scapegoated rather than listened to. Only one at the top of food chain with brain cells that rub together seems to be Fern, although Ahlveres may be better placed politically to make his point than Thirsk.

Don

n7axw wrote:

Randomiser wrote:I think Alvahrez is so mad he will be brutally blunt about Desnairi incompetence. He will spin it from the point of view of how much it's costing the Church in wasted opportunities, treasure, and especially in personnel, God's faithful children. "As a loyal son of the Church I cannot do anything but point out how all of this is harming the Jihad" etc etc. His Intendant will, now, back him all the way.

I don't have a whole lot of faith in Dohlarian reaction to Ahlveres' afteraction report. Thirsk was scapegoated rather than listened to. Only one at the top of food chain with brain cells that rub together seems to be Fern, although Ahlveres may be better placed politically to make his point than Thirsk.

Don

Another difference between Ahlverez and Thirsk is that Ahlverez is not trying to blame anyone in his government for the failure. Nor is he trying to blame anyone else for his mistakes. Those two differences should give him a little more initial credibility with his own leaders.

n7axw wrote:

Randomiser wrote:I think Alvahrez is so mad he will be brutally blunt about Desnairi incompetence. He will spin it from the point of view of how much it's costing the Church in wasted opportunities, treasure, and especially in personnel, God's faithful children. "As a loyal son of the Church I cannot do anything but point out how all of this is harming the Jihad" etc etc. His Intendant will, now, back him all the way.

I don't have a whole lot of faith in Dohlarian reaction to Ahlveres' afteraction report. Thirsk was scapegoated rather than listened to. Only one at the top of food chain with brain cells that rub together seems to be Fern, although Ahlveres may be better placed politically to make his point than Thirsk.

Don

I think the political ramifications of this defeat are likely to be so profound and overwhelming that the Dohlaran leadership will have to pay attention to anything Ahlverez says. Indeed, since the Ahlverez family has been the driving force behind opposition to Thirsk and his reforms, a sudden turnaround by a prominent member of that family could change everything. But I doubt Ahlverez will get the chance to make that report or for it to be read at all by his superiors. We see Charis preparing a naval assault upon Gorath Bay towards the end of LAMA. Between the defeat in Siddarmark and the likely ass kicking that's in store for Rahnyld and his nobles, we may well see Dohlar (and Desnair for that matter) fall apart. Either that or they'll find themselves forced to surrender to Charis and Siddarmark.

Why do you think they have invented these?

Actual review of actions of Alvarez, various analysts. Recall that a Mark is a unit of currency.

Exonerate - 28,000 Marks
Execute - 7,000 marks
Put in charge of war on Desnair, because they lost our army for us - 38,000 Marks, but the disfavor of the Holy Inquisition
Thanks and put in charge of coast defense facing Sodar - 15,000 Marks
and the winner:
Thanks, advise him he does not enjoy the favor of the Great King, and inform him that he has retired to his estates - 22,000 Marks, and the favor of the Great King.

Ahlverez is going to have several pressing concerns besides trying to get a AAR back to Gorath.

1)Food
2)Ammo
3)trying to break contact with the ICA and RSA
4)evading contact while trying to break back to Dolahr or Desnair

saber964 wrote:Ahlverez is going to have several pressing concerns besides trying to get a AAR back to Gorath.

1)Food
2)Ammo
3)trying to break contact with the ICA and RSA
4)evading contact while trying to break back to Dolahr or Desnair

He broke contact with Duke Eastshare's army before the end of LAMA. Though he does still have to get by the ICA and RSA forces around Thesmar. I suspect he will try to evade them rather than engage them, so ammo shouldn't be an issue either.

Hello Knick,

Thanks and kudos to all for these great comments!

Randomiser's 'loyal son of the church' approach is excellent!

Ahlverez's approval of all his Dohlaran officers, even Thirsk supporters, is a great point I meant to emphasize lat night (I have it in my notes), because unlike with Thirsk's report none of the failure splashes on any fellow Dohlaran, thus accepting and defending Ahlverez is fairly low risk for them, if Rainos doesn't blame anyone specifically but the Desnarian GOIC's (General Officer In Command-a Brit term) and whatever passes for a general staff in Desnar etc.

Because somebody should have done the arithmetic back in Geyra or Desnar and noticed then there weren't enough dragons and wagons, but that sloppy attitude towards supply will reap the ultimate penalty if Clyntahn has anything to say about it, though finding who was responsible (if anyone) will be very interesting, will it be in the text of HFQ? (I doubt it for space reasons)

Rainos should make the contrast between Dohlar's logistics under Baron Tymplahr (Shulmyn Rahdgyrs) explicit, emphasizing Desnar's pointed refusal by Duke Traykhos himself of Duchairn's offer, and the difference between the respective competent supply officers; general Tymplahr with an expert staff etc and lieutenant Laiymyn Kahsimahr.

The fact that Duchairn could have kept the AoJ alive and fed if only allowed ought to tick Clyntahn off, given the fact all his inquisitors didn't even see the problem perhaps until it was too late argues they don't have the proper training to know what's wrong, so Duchairn's quartermasters ought to be given far more power.

Of course, that's locking the barn after the horses have run away, but affixing the proper blame for this disaster onto Duke Traykhos and his staff, including making an example of Hennet and his aristocratic regiments for misappropriation of army rations (I love Charydis's left-handed compliment approach) will be important for the CoGA's public image that Clyntahn may fix upon, regardless of whatever damage to the CoGA or Go4 relationship with Desnar results.

The Go4 discussion should be fascinating.

Pointing out Dohlar made more rifles and artillery than all of Desnar should certainly be touted by Dohlar, but it should never be baldly stated that the RDA should have been separate and independent from the AoJ (which was somebody's decision in the temple) because it could have reached Fort Tairys soon enough to have made a difference and changed the whole campaign.

I suspect Fyrmyn will make that case well enough.

Fyrmyn's copyists might include comments from common soldiers both Dohlaran and Desnari that they think are pertinent

Again in regards to Harless, Rainos should emphasize he did well by IDA standards, however damning that is by every other competent army's perspective.

Regarding Hennet however, showing how Ahlverez's repeated suggestions that half the useless cavalry be sent back could have saved the AoJ/AoS at every point could be most of the nails in Hennet's coffin.

His final honest but regrettable recommendation is that Dohlar avoid any future joint operations until the IDA truly has adapted to the new weapons and fixed its systemic supply problems is made at only deep personal cost, but his oath to King Rahnyld demands it.

That kind of jinx might induce some army's to shape up, but I doubt the IDA will.

Actually, we don't have any textev that Gorath Bay is about to be invaded by the ICN or ICA in LaMA since Sharpfield had only 8,000 marines and DE is a couple thousand miles away at the moment.

Though there is the third convoy from Cherayth and the Salthar-Silk Town Canal awaits!

L

KNick wrote:

n7axw wrote:**quote="Randomiser"**I think Alvahrez is so mad he will be brutally blunt about Desnairi incompetence. He will spin it from the point of view of how much it's costing the Church in wasted opportunities, treasure, and especially in personnel, God's faithful children. "As a loyal son of the Church I cannot do anything but point out how all of this is harming the Jihad" etc etc. His Intendant will, now, back him all the way.**/quote**

I don't have a whole lot of faith in Dohlarian reaction to Ahlveres' afteraction report. Thirsk was scapegoated rather than listened to. Only one at the top of food chain with brain cells that rub together seems to be Fern, although Ahlveres may be better placed politically to make his point than Thirsk.

Don

Another difference between Ahlverez and Thirsk is that Ahlverez is not trying to blame anyone in his government for the failure. Nor is he trying to blame anyone else for his mistakes. Those two differences should give him a little more initial credibility with his own leaders.