HFQ Official Snippet #6 (oopsie!)

evilauthor wrote:

SCC wrote:Some of you need to go back and reread some stuff. The COGA's code-breaking ability is computer backed, but limited to substitution key systems, it can not break one time pads. Secondly the semaphore transmits in I think a 20 character alphabet with multiple channels per tower, and it's full duplex

SOMEONE needs to reread things. The MODERN CoGA most definitely does NOT have computer backed code breaking. There's a rumor that the Archangels could break any mortal code known, but the modern CoGA doesn't have access to them.

That said, the Inquisition is often touted as the oldest, most experienced, and most knowledgeable espionage service on Safehold. That likely includes code breaking, but again through entirely "mortal" means.

Edit: Wait a sec. Does OWL even TRY to read the CoGA's mail? I get the impression from the books that he and Nahrmahn don't even try to crack CoGA codes. Why bother wasting the processor power when they can just watch over the recipients' shoulders as they decrypt the messages?

Nope, the COGA still has computer based code breaking, I can't remember the exact words, but the COGA has "The best code breakers on the Safehold, and rumor says they still have magical assistance left behind by the Archangels"

evilauthor wrote:

SCC wrote:Some of you need to go back and reread some stuff. The COGA's code-breaking ability is computer backed, but limited to substitution key systems, it can not break one time pads. Secondly the semaphore transmits in I think a 20 character alphabet with multiple channels per tower, and it's full duplex

SOMEONE needs to reread things. The MODERN CoGA most definitely does NOT have computer backed code breaking. There's a rumor that the Archangels could break any mortal code known, but the modern CoGA doesn't have access to them.

That said, the Inquisition is often touted as the oldest, most experienced, and most knowledgeable espionage service on Safehold. That likely includes code breaking, but again through entirely "mortal" means.

Edit: Wait a sec. Does OWL even TRY to read the CoGA's mail? I get the impression from the books that he and Nahrmahn don't even try to crack CoGA codes. Why bother wasting the processor power when they can just watch over the recipients' shoulders as they decrypt the messages?

I've been rereading BSRA. One of the things Rock Valley brings back with him from Fayrad was the church's latest ciphers. It obvious that both sides regard that as important. Not even Merlin's snarcs can be looking over EVERYBODY'S shoulder.

Don

SCC wrote:Nope, the COGA still has computer based code breaking, I can't remember the exact words, but the COGA has "The best code breakers on the Safehold, and rumor says they still have magical assistance left behind by the Archangels"

Could you provide an actual cite? Because rumor != fact, and "best codebreakers" doesn't necessarily mean computers, especially in a world where all encryption and decryption has to be done manually by human beings.

evilauthor wrote:

SCC wrote:Nope, the COGA still has computer based code breaking, I can't remember the exact words, but the COGA has "The best code breakers on the Safehold, and rumor says they still have magical assistance left behind by the Archangels"

Could you provide an actual cite? Because rumor != fact, and "best codebreakers" doesn't necessarily mean computers, especially in a world where all encryption and decryption has to be done manually by human beings.

Page 119 of LAMA, I think it might even be in the Snippets RFC posted

Just checked and it is, #29 ( viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4876 ) So I think I can get away with copying the text.

Secular codebreakers trifled with the Church’s message traffic at their peril, but it was well known that Mother Church’s own semaphore clerks were skilled at breaking even complex ciphers. For that matter, there were rumors (and the more Baron Green Valley learned about the “archangels’,” the less convinced he became that they were inaccurate) that mystic devices within the Temple could crack any cipher ever used.

This from the next paragraph also applies:

That was why critically important messages were routinely sent using what codebreakers on Old Earth had called “one-time pads” — substitution ciphers which would be used only once, for a single message, and then discarded.

SCC, that's a heavy hint, but it's still only a rumour and one it would be very advantageous for the Temple to foster. We have never actually seen any of those devices. Moreover, since they aren't mystical they would still need a reasonable sized collection of messages in the same cypher to churn out decodes on demand for any reasonably sophisticated cypher. Also most people posting have moved on from the idea of a cypher to something which needs a key at the other end which will still give the computers problems.

ksandgren wrote:Thanks for feeding the starving RFC! A wonderful long snippet.

Thank You Nr. Weber for this awesome snippet. I dint see that coming about Aivah being Mother Superior. That certainly opens things up. I hope she is brought into the circle. I would t want to get on her bad side lol

It may have been addressed already, but what is the difference between an Abbess and a Mother Superior? Simply that one doesn't have an Abbey to oversee, or is there something more?

Why yes, I am Protestant, why do you ask?

Randomiser wrote:SCC, that's a heavy hint, but it's still only a rumour and one it would be very advantageous for the Temple to foster. We have never actually seen any of those devices. Moreover, since they aren't mystical they would still need a reasonable sized collection of messages in the same cypher to churn out decodes on demand for any reasonably sophisticated cypher. Also most people posting have moved on from the idea of a cypher to something which needs a key at the other end which will still give the computers problems.

Yeah. The Archangels leaving behind decryption computers for "mere mortals" to use just doesn't fit their MO. If they had done that, then they might as well have also left accounting programs and email systems for Duchairn's treasury to use too.

evilauthor wrote:

Randomiser wrote:SCC, that's a heavy hint, but it's still only a rumour and one it would be very advantageous for the Temple to foster. We have never actually seen any of those devices. Moreover, since they aren't mystical they would still need a reasonable sized collection of messages in the same cypher to churn out decodes on demand for any reasonably sophisticated cypher. Also most people posting have moved on from the idea of a cypher to something which needs a key at the other end which will still give the computers problems.

Yeah. The Archangels leaving behind decryption computers for "mere mortals" to use just doesn't fit their MO. If they had done that, then they might as well have also left accounting programs and email systems for Duchairn's treasury to use too.

Not as useful as you'd think, they wouldn't be able to produce the hard-copies needed to share those books without printers and I don't think that would end well.

Also we KNOW that the Inquisition was left behind magic wands to open doors in The Temple

SCC wrote:Not as useful as you'd think, they wouldn't be able to produce the hard-copies needed to share those books without printers and I don't think that would end well.

Also we KNOW that the Inquisition was left behind magic wands to open doors in The Temple

Sure, but that's to operate stuff INSIDE the Temple.

Think about how a code breaking computer would work. It's unlikely that Inquisitors are just typing in copies of a message or running things through a scanner. To maintain the "mystical" charade, a code breaking computer would likely be presented as some kind of Oracle to be petitioned to translate some code or other. Which suggests some kind of limited AI system at the very least (like pre-Awake OWL).

But then what happens if you present such an Oracle with a One Time Pad encoded message that it can't crack? What happens to that charade of infallibility then?

Of course, the whole problem can be avoided simply by the Archangels NOT providing a magic code cracking computer.