The possible ways to break Church doctrine

lyonheart wrote:Hi ALJ SF,

Thank you for pointing out something I'd forgotten.

The older Holy Writ texts don't have the book of Schueler and Chihiro, thus validating Maikel's rejection of the punishment, arguably he's following Langhorne more than the church has.

If the grand Vicar has been using the newer version as he has, then has he been in conflict with Langhorne?

If Seijin Khody's journal is revealed about the mortal nature of the archangels, that will be a severe blow to the authority of the CoGA coming from near God himself.

I'm pretty sure it's well known/obvious that the Books of Chihiro and Scheuler post-date the Fall of Shan-Wei since they refer to it, so where is the revelation there?

I can't recall anything in Kohdy's journal that reveals anything new about the mortal nature of the Archangels, can you point me at something. It's always been Orthodox CoGA teaching that God provided the Archangels with mortal, but very long-lived, bodies so they could interact with humans and guide them. As the bodies died the Archangels 'returned to God'

Randomiser wrote:I can't recall anything in [spoiler text]

References to that person and/or the religious order related to that person are spoilers. references should be removed from thread titles and appropriate warnings posted when mentioning them or quoting mentions of them.

Lynonheart, the above applies to you as well.

Note: I am not a moderator.

Dear SWM,

You have my deep apology for such an error.

I should have made the notice of a spoiler from a snippet in the post title.

Again I humbly apologise.

L

SWM wrote:Lyonheart, is that spoiler material?

Hi Randomiser,

I don't think the archangels' bodies on Safehold were explicitly stated to be mortal, rather vessels for their spirits that were eventually exhausted, the archangels then returning to God.

Just one of those things that had to be reconciled with what they had first told the Adam and Eves, IIRC.

L

Randomiser wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi ALJ SF,

Thank you for pointing out something I'd forgotten.

The older Holy Writ texts don't have the book of Schueler and Chihiro, thus validating Maikel's rejection of the punishment, arguably he's following Langhorne more than the church has.

If the grand Vicar has been using the newer version as he has, then has he been in conflict with Langhorne?

If Seijin Khody's journal is revealed about the mortal nature of the archangels, that will be a severe blow to the authority of the CoGA coming from near God himself.

I'm pretty sure it's well known/obvious that the Books of Chihiro and Scheuler post-date the Fall of Shan-Wei since they refer to it, so where is the revelation there?

I can't recall anything in Kohdy's journal that reveals anything new about the mortal nature of the Archangels, can you point me at something. It's always been Orthodox CoGA teaching that God provided the Archangels with mortal, but very long-lived, bodies so they could interact with humans and guide them. As the bodies died the Archangels 'returned to God'

Weird Harold wrote:

Randomiser wrote:I can't recall anything in [spoiler text]

References to that person and/or the religious order related to that person are spoilers. references should be removed from thread titles and appropriate warnings posted when mentioning them or quoting mentions of them.

Lynonheart, the above applies to you as well.

Note: I am not a moderator.

Which is why I added the word Spoiler to the header before posting after reading SWM's complaint. If you're going to sound off at people at least look at the evidence first.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Randomiser,

I don't think the archangels' bodies on Safehold were explicitly stated to be mortal, rather vessels for their spirits that were eventually exhausted, the archangels then returning to God.

Just one of those things that had to be reconciled with what they had first told the Adam and Eves, IIRC.

L

I can't recall the exact terminology used about this in the various places where it has come up so you may be right. However the difference between bodies that can be 'eventually exhausted' and ones that are 'mortal' seems rather thin. Especially given that the faithful had to be told something about the reason Langhorne and a whole host of other Archangels were no longer around after Commander Pei's thoughtful little gift. I've just returned OAR to the library so I can't check on exactly what that was myself.

Randomiser wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Randomiser,

I don't think the archangels' bodies on Safehold were explicitly stated to be mortal, rather vessels for their spirits that were eventually exhausted, the archangels then returning to God.

Just one of those things that had to be reconciled with what they had first told the Adam and Eves, IIRC.

L

I can't recall the exact terminology used about this in the various places where it has come up so you may be right. However the difference between bodies that can be 'eventually exhausted' and ones that are 'mortal' seems rather thin. Especially given that the faithful had to be told something about the reason Langhorne and a whole host of other Archangels were no longer around after Commander Pei's thoughtful little gift. I've just returned OAR to the library so I can't check on exactly what that was myself.

Most of this info is found either in OAR in the material surrounding Nimue's wakeup or in BSRA at the time Merlin discovers the Brethren of St Zherneau.

Don

Correct, in the first scene from the POV of the Adam Timothy in OAR, he reflects that just as his body ages more slowly than the bodies of the mortal non-Adams & non-Eves, so does the bodies of the Angels/Archangels age slower than his body.

IIRC he reflects that sometime after his death, there will be a time when mortals will be able to see the Archangels/Angels in the flesh.

Edited Followup: Please remember that Langhorne and company knew that they would eventually die of old age so they had to create theology to explain their absence in the future.

n7axw wrote:

Randomiser wrote:


I can't recall the exact terminology used about this in the various places where it has come up so you may be right. However the difference between bodies that can be 'eventually exhausted' and ones that are 'mortal' seems rather thin. Especially given that the faithful had to be told something about the reason Langhorne and a whole host of other Archangels were no longer around after Commander Pei's thoughtful little gift. I've just returned OAR to the library so I can't check on exactly what that was myself.

Most of this info is found either in OAR in the material surrounding Nimue's wakeup or in BSRA at the time Merlin discovers the Brethren of St Zherneau.

Don