Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:Vince, just for my own clarity, are you saying these numbers are including both Frontier and Battle Fleet ships? Or just that neither has CLACs? Or both.

The only navies in the Honorverse that are known have CLACs to date are the RMN, the GSN (and the Protector's Own) and the RHN.

Also possibly IAN*, and maybe the Erewhon Space Navy (designs bought from the RMN?)** and maybe (under construction) Maya Sector***.

* When the IAN forces were conducting exercises at Trevor's Star in At All Costs with the GSN and RMN as the opforce, (at the end of chapter 64, not long before (one set of ***) the Battle of Manticore) 2 RMN CLACs were providing the carrier force for the IAN.

** This is just my speculation, I don't remember any text evidence confirming that the Erewhon Space Navy has any CLACs.

*** Ruth Winton in Cauldron of Ghosts (beginning of chapter 28) stated that the Erewhonese were building SDs on down for Maya Sector, but "No CLACs, so far I’ve been able to determine. Not yet, anyway.”

Vince wrote:

cthia wrote:Vince, just for my own clarity, are you saying these numbers are including both Frontier and Battle Fleet ships? Or just that neither has CLACs? Or both.

The only navies in the Honorverse that have CLACs to date are the RMN, the GSN (and the Protector's Own), the RHN, and possibly the IAN*.

* When the IAN forces were conducting exercises at Trevor's Star in At All Costs with the GSN and RMN as the opforce, (at the end of chapter 64, not long before (one set of ***) the Battle of Manticore) 2 RMN CLACs were providing the carrier force for the IAN.

Thanks Vince, and everyone else for the clarification.

But for the record, I knew that the Haven sector possesses all of the CLACs/LACs. I only meant that I hoped they'd get busy and bring some along for another engagement, hopefully making it an unpleasant surprise for the GA. However, I failed to take into account just how much R&D they'd have to bridge to do just that regarding old style LACs and modern LACs. (Harold straightened me out on that count.)

What I was asking for clarification on was this statement ...

Even including Frontier Fleet, the SLN has no CLACs, no LACs and no more SDs in active service than what Battle Fleet had.

As worded, that could be misinterpreted, by someone not knowing any better , as that Frontier Fleet has SDs in service, but no more than what Battle Fleet has. Meaning that the total number would be double if you'd add theirs.

It's been cleared up. But just for the record.

I don't think I've actually ever pointed this out. But what leads me to think that the SLN is going to throw another even larger force against the GA is this...

In one of the engagements between the SL and the RMN navies, one of the SLN officers said to whichever RMN officer, and I paraphrase, 'Perhaps that is true(talking about the qualitative advantage) but do you really think it's going to matter when the SLN sends thousands of ships in response?'

Vince wrote:Also possibly IAN*, and maybe the Erewhon Space Navy (designs bought from the RMN?)** and maybe (under construction) Maya Sector***.

* When the IAN forces were conducting exercises at Trevor's Star in At All Costs with the GSN and RMN as the opforce, (at the end of chapter 64, not long before (one set of ***) the Battle of Manticore) 2 RMN CLACs were providing the carrier force for the IAN.

FWIW, the IAN was experimenting with advanced LAC designs in War of Honor. They may not have had any homegrown carriers in service then, but it's been at least three years 'in-universe' since then.

cthia wrote:...Snip...

What I was asking for clarification on was this statement ...

Even including Frontier Fleet, the SLN has no CLACs, no LACs and no more SDs in active service than what Battle Fleet had.

As worded, that could be misinterpreted, by someone not knowing any better , as that Frontier Fleet has SDs in service, but no more than what Battle Fleet has. Meaning that the total number would be double if you'd add theirs.

IIRC, David has said that Frontier Fleet has no units larger than a battlecruiser. All SLN SDs are in Battle Fleet. I can't remember whether this was in a forum post (on this site, can't find it in the Pearls) or in text.

cthia wrote:I don't think I've actually ever pointed this out. But what leads me to think that the SLN is going to throw another even larger force against the GA is this...

In one of the engagements between the SL and the RMN navies, one of the SLN officers said to whichever RMN officer, and I paraphrase, 'Perhaps that is true(talking about the qualitative advantage) but do you really think it's going to matter when the SLN sends thousands of ships in response?'

That officer was assuming that the Reserve could be called up. It's part of the egocentric self-delusion that the League has built up over the last several centuries. The threat of that immense Reserve Fleet has been held as a club over the galaxy, the implicit threat preventing anyone from challenging the Solarian League.

cthia wrote:I don't think I've actually ever pointed this out. But what leads me to think that the SLN is going to throw another even larger force against the GA is this...

In one of the engagements between the SL and the RMN navies, one of the SLN officers said to whichever RMN officer, and I paraphrase, 'Perhaps that is true (talking about the qualitative advantage) but do you really think it's going to matter when the SLN sends thousands of ships in response?'

Well, the senior SLN officer doesn't think that:

any 'additional fleet actions' could only be one-side massacres. Even assuming what Harrington said to Filareta in the recordings they've sent us represents a full statement of their capabilities, without holding any nasty tactical surprises in reserve, we simply can't match them at this time.

So, I think the idea of seeing whether the Manties would run out of missiles before the Sollies run out of ships is off the table.

Bill Woods wrote:

cthia wrote:I don't think I've actually ever pointed this out. But what leads me to think that the SLN is going to throw another even larger force against the GA is this...

In one of the engagements between the SL and the RMN navies, one of the SLN officers said to whichever RMN officer, and I paraphrase, 'Perhaps that is true (talking about the qualitative advantage) but do you really think it's going to matter when the SLN sends thousands of ships in response?'

Well, the senior SLN officer doesn't think that:

any 'additional fleet actions' could only be one-side massacres. Even assuming what Harrington said to Filareta in the recordings they've sent us represents a full statement of their capabilities, without holding any nasty tactical surprises in reserve, we simply can't match them at this time.

So, I think the idea of seeing whether the Manties would run out of missiles before the Sollies run out of ships is off the table.

Even if the Malignment hasn't shot their influence wad, has another rabbit in its hat, ace in the hole, or trick up their sleeve?

Sort of like, have the senior SLN officer untimely removed, and replaced with a more agreeable subject.

cthia wrote:Even if the Malignment hasn't shot their influence wad, has another rabbit in its hat, ace in the hole, or trick up their sleeve?

The refusal to send out SDs as missile sponges and concentration on commerce raiding was done on the advice of a MAlign agent. I don't think the MAlign is going to be suggesting any missile sponge missions in the near future. It would appear the MAlign's emphasis has shifted to decimation of Frontier Fleet over further humiliations of Battle Fleet.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:Even if the Malignment hasn't shot their influence wad, has another rabbit in its hat, ace in the hole, or trick up their sleeve?

The refusal to send out SDs as missile sponges and concentration on commerce raiding was done on the advice of a MAlign agent. I don't think the MAlign is going to be suggesting any missile sponge missions in the near future. It would appear the MAlign's emphasis has shifted to decimation of Frontier Fleet over further humiliations of Battle Fleet.

'Missile sponges' might be the best use of the reserve fleet:
Put skeleton crews on them, enough to make them look like threats. Mount attacks, and once the Manties throw a few thousand missiles, bail out.
If 8,000 obsolete SDs could draw 400 missiles each, that's 3.2 million....