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Honorverse ramblings and musings

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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SWM   » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:39 pm

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stewart wrote:The "cat" is out of the bag now on several points
(1) mode of arrival and translation fingerprints are recognized
(2) mode of data communication recognized
(3) The alliance now has Simoles who has let them know the drive mode is possible (half the R&D battle)

Point (3) is not correct. Simoes knows how the streak drive works. He did not work on the spider drive, and there is no evidence that he knows anything useful about it.

Point (1) is also sort of incorrect. Spider drive ships do not have an unusual translation footprint; it was a perfectly normal translation footprint. The only thing unsual about it was that it was extremely faint, similar in strength to ghost signals that crop up when you are pushing your sensitivity down into the noise. I will grant that this incident will cause Manticore to pay more attention to these weak signals. But it is not really accurate to say that they have figured out a particular fingerprint for spider drive ships. A spider drive ship could also come in with a perfectly normal translation signal.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by kzt   » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:02 pm

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Yup. Take a DD squadron. Split them up into pairs and have them make the same kind of hyperspace transitions that the spiders did, at several light months out. Then go back to hyper, move a light week and do it again. In a day you can produce dozens of transitions tha need to be investigated, then you go back into hyper and fly away for a few weeks.

If you have 36 potential spiders to investigate In 15 hours, how do you do this? In particular, how much force do you leave waiting for the 37th transition? The 65th transition? How much of your total fleet do you want to tie down to respond to these?
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by n7axw   » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:31 pm

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SWM wrote:
stewart wrote:The "cat" is out of the bag now on several points
(1) mode of arrival and translation fingerprints are recognized
(2) mode of data communication recognized
(3) The alliance now has Simoles who has let them know the drive mode is possible (half the R&D battle)

Point (3) is not correct. Simoes knows how the streak drive works. He did not work on the spider drive, and there is no evidence that he knows anything useful about it.

Point (1) is also sort of incorrect. Spider drive ships do not have an unusual translation footprint; it was a perfectly normal translation footprint. The only thing unsual about it was that it was extremely faint, similar in strength to ghost signals that crop up when you are pushing your sensitivity down into the noise. I will grant that this incident will cause Manticore to pay more attention to these weak signals. But it is not really accurate to say that they have figured out a particular fingerprint for spider drive ships. A spider drive ship could also come in with a perfectly normal translation signal.


I think it would be safer to say that Simoes doesn't know the details about the spider. But he probably can describe it in general terms.

Hand his description to Sonja and her research teams and they might be able to work out the details.

Consider how the Graysons reinvented the hyperdrive (I think) when they couldn't get anyone to show them how it was done and managed to come up with some worthwhile wrinkles of their own.

Just some food for thought, the moral being that if someone worked it out the first time, someone else can work it out again...

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Vince   » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:21 am

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n7axw wrote:I think it would be safer to say that Simoes doesn't know the details about the spider. But he probably can describe it in general terms.

Hand his description to Sonja and her research teams and they might be able to work out the details.

Consider how the Graysons reinvented the hyperdrive (I think) when they couldn't get anyone to show them how it was done and managed to come up with some worthwhile wrinkles of their own.

Just some food for thought, the moral being that if someone worked it out the first time, someone else can work it out again...

Don

Quibble: The Graysons reinvented the inertial compensator when they couldn't get anyone to tell them how it worked, not the hyperdrive.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by n7axw   » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:48 am

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Vince wrote:
n7axw wrote:I think it would be safer to say that Simoes doesn't know the details about the spider. But he probably can describe it in general terms.

Hand his description to Sonja and her research teams and they might be able to work out the details.

Consider how the Graysons reinvented the hyperdrive (I think) when they couldn't get anyone to show them how it was done and managed to come up with some worthwhile wrinkles of their own.

Just some food for thought, the moral being that if someone worked it out the first time, someone else can work it out again...

Don

Quibble: The Graysons reinvented the inertial compensator when they couldn't get anyone to tell them how it worked, not the hyperdrive.


Thanks for the correction. I'll take that as a friendly amendment! :D

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SWM   » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:03 pm

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n7axw wrote:I think it would be safer to say that Simoes doesn't know the details about the spider. But he probably can describe it in general terms.

Hand his description to Sonja and her research teams and they might be able to work out the details.

Consider how the Graysons reinvented the hyperdrive (I think) when they couldn't get anyone to show them how it was done and managed to come up with some worthwhile wrinkles of their own.

Just some food for thought, the moral being that if someone worked it out the first time, someone else can work it out again...

Don

No, we do not have any reason to believe that Simoes can tell Manticore anything useful about the spider drive. Not even a general description. We have no reason to believe he even knows it exists.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:02 am

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I'm trying to determine the baddest of the baddest of the anal orifices that side of the Pecos.

My memory only serves up ...

-Beowulf's Biological Survey Crew (BSC)
-Solarian Gendermerie.
-The Royal Manticoran Marine Corp (RMMC)
-The Grayson Space Marine Corp (GSMC). I simply had to include a Corps with an elite special battalion called the Orbit Dogs.

Did I miss any? And who is the baddest of the lot?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:10 am

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You know, Mason and Dixon would have one hell of a time surveying in the Honorverse. I suppose hyperwalls are the Mason-Dixon lines of space.

Cross that hyperwall, and your ass is grass! :lol:

Totally couldn't resist that.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Bill Woods   » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:44 pm

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SWM wrote:
n7axw wrote:I think it would be safer to say that Simoes doesn't know the details about the spider. But he probably can describe it in general terms.

Hand his description to Sonja and her research teams and they might be able to work out the details.

Consider how the Graysons reinvented the hyperdrive (I think) when they couldn't get anyone to show them how it was done and managed to come up with some worthwhile wrinkles of their own.

Just some food for thought, the moral being that if someone worked it out the first time, someone else can work it out again...

Don

No, we do not have any reason to believe that Simoes can tell Manticore anything useful about the spider drive. Not even a general description. We have no reason to believe he even knows it exists.
Sure we do. When Benjamin reports to Albrecht, he says, "[Zilwicki, Cachat, & Simões]'re talking about virus-based nanotech assassinations, the streak drive and the spider drive, and they're naming names about something called 'the Mesan Alignment.' "
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Imagined conversation:
Admiral [noting yet another Manty tech surprise]:
XO, what's the budget for the ONI?
Vice Admiral: I don't recall exactly, sir. Several billion quatloos.
Admiral: ... What do you suppose they did with all that money?
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SharkHunter   » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:33 pm

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--hopefully snipped correctly--
Bill Woods wrote:
n7axw wrote:I think it would be safer to say that Simoes doesn't know the details about the spider. But he probably can describe it in general terms.

Hand his description to Sonja and her research teams and they might be able to work out the details.
...
Consider how the Graysons reinvented the hyperdrive (I think) when they couldn't get anyone to show them how it was done and managed to come up with some worthwhile wrinkles of their own.

Just some food for thought, the moral being that if someone worked it out the first time, someone else can work it out again...

Don

Sure we do. When Benjamin reports to Albrecht, he says, "[Zilwicki, Cachat, & Simões]'re talking about virus-based nanotech assassinations, the streak drive and the spider drive, and they're naming names about something called 'the Mesan Alignment.' "
Some of that might have come from the data chip provided by Jack McBride, however. We're not quite sure how much Simoes knows yet, nor all of the details that Zilwicki and Cachat figured out while floating towards a port in the storm home at impeller drive speeds, prior to regaining hyper ability mid journey.
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