Solarian Military Catchup Attempts

Weird Harold wrote:

Hutch wrote:(1) Major fleet bases/repair centers/building slips are located in Sol System along with part of the mothballed fleet, which are valid targets, and (2) Giving the SL a 'free square' where they won't be touched and can do research/rebuilding/commission new ships without the GA doing anything seems to be in the realm of A Bad Idea.

As long as SLN ships stay in the Sol system, it won't matter to the GA how many or how capable.

The GA's primary concern regarding SLN R&D is the possibility of a "Bolthole" establishment away from the Sol System; Sol System is just to infested with spies from all sources to maintain any sort of secret project there. The GA can just establish a covert blockade of the Sol system to destroy any SLN movement out of the system.

The risk of the SLN developing some war winning tech in the Sol System and building sufficient numbers to be a threat is far less than the risk of an adverse backlash from any perceived attack on "The Cradle of Mankind" (tm).

Do you really think the SLN are capable of getting a bolthole up and running without anyone not finding out? It's not like they have a lot of unused real estate to choose from either.

Re Solarian public opinion of an RMN attack on strategic targets in the Sol system, perhaps a way to go about metering it would be to coax Stacey Hauptman into opening up an affiliate news column on Old Earth to discuss it.

1. It will provide the pulse of the man in the street.
2. It will get them emotionally prepared for the possibility.
3. It'll ease the Solly public's worry of the intentions of Manticore beyond its own safety.
4. Stacey's column would ensure responsible journalism.

dreamrider wrote:
There is one other major power who has stated that a major GA attack on the Sol system would be a political fool's game likely to accomplish the strategic opposite of its operational goals...that would be David Weber.

Now, personally, I think that a Dieppe-style 'commando' raid on the Hyperion station, and the Reserve yards, might just be an acceptable ploy...and an irresistibly good READ!

dreamrider

Only more successful than Dieppe, I hope... Or were you refering to Operation Chariot, the attack on the drydock at St. Nazaire?

Joat42 wrote:Do you really think the SLN are capable of getting a bolthole up and running without anyone not finding out? It's not like they have a lot of unused real estate to choose from either.

The Solarian League is Huge and encompasses a lot of uninhabited systems where a R&D/shipbuilding hideout could be built. It is one of the concerns brought up by Honor when the Harrington Doctrine was first defined.

Given time, I don't think there is any doubt that the Solarian League has the ability to build a secret facility and keep it hidden at least as well as Haven managed.

Weird Harold wrote:

Joat42 wrote:Do you really think the SLN are capable of getting a bolthole up and running without anyone not finding out? It's not like they have a lot of unused real estate to choose from either.

The Solarian League is Huge and encompasses a lot of uninhabited systems where a R&D/shipbuilding hideout could be built. It is one of the concerns brought up by Honor when the Harrington Doctrine was first defined.

Given time, I don't think there is any doubt that the Solarian League has the ability to build a secret facility and keep it hidden at least as well as Haven managed.

That is assuming that we could find any competent people who are not a part of the corruption to do the organizing. We haven't seen any of that so far.

Don

n7axw wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:~~Joat42
Do you really think the SLN are capable of getting a bolthole up and running without anyone not finding out? It's not like they have a lot of unused real estate to choose from either.~~

The Solarian League is Huge and encompasses a lot of uninhabited systems where a R&D/shipbuilding hideout could be built. It is one of the concerns brought up by Honor when the Harrington Doctrine was first defined.

Given time, I don't think there is any doubt that the Solarian League has the ability to build a secret facility and keep it hidden at least as well as Haven managed.

That is assuming that we could find any competent people who are not a part of the corruption to do the organizing. We haven't seen any of that so far.

Don

Finding competent people is the easy part. The SL is stuffed full of very competent scientists, techs and workers. The ones that aren't a part of the Malign might be a little harder. But I don't think there are MAlign people in all parts of the government/military/research/commercial aspects of the SL. The more agents in place, the greater the chance of discovery. I'm having a hard enough time believing that the deep cover agents whose families have been in place for many generations and are still loyal to the Malign (it's one aspect of RFC's story that is just more than a little hard to swallow lorewise), but they couldn't have seeded too many agents/lines without vastly increasing the risk of at least some of them not staying loyal to unseen masters.

But I admit it is likely that the MAlign would know about any bolthole (or boltholes) before the GA does. It's also entirely possible that the SLN will be able to have boltholes that remain hidden. They have the room and space in their borders to shotgun multiple R&D centers/systems. And those systems don;t have to have an inhabitable planet on them. A system with several asteroid belts and no habitable worlds could still support a significant construction force.

Zakharra wrote:...... But I admit it is likely that the MAlign would know about any bolthole (or boltholes) before the GA does. It's also entirely possible that the SLN will be able to have boltholes that remain hidden. They have the room and space in their borders to shotgun multiple R&D centers/systems. And those systems don;t have to have an inhabitable planet on them. A system with several asteroid belts and no habitable worlds could still support a significant construction force.

No doubt the SL could establish a bolthole--but I doubt that they have one now (why go to the expense when you know, without a shadow of a doubt, that you are mightier than anything else in the Galaxy?). And as mentioned above, they need time...and that the GA does not plan to give them.

Hi Jonathan_S

It's chapter 27 of ART, where it states Hyperion One, in orbit around Mars, is only 4 LM inside the hyper limit, and only 4 LM from earth, which as I've pointed out before is another typo, which happens from time to time even with RFC, and why we poor fans keep offering to proof read RFC's magnum opuses for free if it means we can read them sooner.

Regarding the attack on Sol's BF reserve and shipyards, I've also previously posted that it should be the last after destroying the other six, and perhaps even enough time for the news of those attacks to spread across the core systems first, while RD's monitor Sol's military reaction, with a reaction force waiting if TF's try to leave.

Once everyone there knows the GA is killing BF, especially its reserve; killing the last one in Sol isn't such a surprise, and if the GA stays inside 3-4 LM of the hyper limit while just the Mistletoe's go in and take out the reserve etc in about an hour, then the fleet leaves an hour later, few objective observers would find anything that threatened Terra.

However, if some BF SD's had been shifted to earth orbit precisely because they think earth is sacrosanct, sending in LAC's and some Sag-C's with pods further in might be in order.

I'm also curious how the GA might patch into SL system communications, particularly the planetary webs to bury or encyst its own news into the network for as long as possible to counter the Sollie version, perhaps a virus type program that would keep hiding itself while popping up to provide answers with news and video of what really happened with news updates, asking the questions the bureaucrats don't want asked or answered.

It might wind up being expendable communication satellites that play cat and mouse as long as possible veering in and out of the planetary orbit to transmit to different communication satellites and ground stations etc, possibly with advanced AI's to figure ways to sneak in etc.

Feel free to add your own suggestions.

L

Jonathan_S wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Jonathan_S,

If the SLN attacks Beowulf soon, as many expect, since the vote could have been in late September and its now October, most of the BF but especially it's entire reserve; will be debris in 2-3 T-weeks after the attack, the reserve being located in just 7 systems makes it almost too easy.

Despite the textev, I suspect the hyper limit for Sol is more than 4 LM beyond Mars, so it will take more than 40 minutes for the 120+ Mistletoe's to get to the BF's SD parking lot.

Must have missed that textev. But unless something weird is going one Mars should be 8.5 lightminutes inside the limit.

Wikipedia tells me that Mars mean orbital distance is 230 million km (12.7 lightminutes); the sun is a G2 class star and the infodump chart of hyperlimit by spectral class says they have a 21.2 lm hyperlimit. 21.2-12.7 = 8.5 lm inside the limit.
(Incidentally over twice the max continuously powered range of an 3-drive MDM)

lyonheart wrote:The mandarin's reaction to the GA fleet staying just long enough to eradicate the reserve and any BF SD's that offer themselves as targets etc would be very entertaining.

I can't wait much longer!

L

Yes, another book would be wonderful. I want to see how this plays out. (Plus of course it'll provide fresh fodder to speculate over)

Hi Cthia,

I strongly doubt it.

Who would staff it?

Certainly not Manticorans, Havenites or any GA members etc.

I doubt even Beowulfians despite still being solarian citizens are that safe on Earth right now, or anyone from those systems even thinking of seceding.

Who else could be trusted, before getting into the time factor involved; ie in the long run, it won't be that long.

I suspect Beowulf may have already tried this tactic a hundred or two more years ago, and the bureaucrats and transtellars swamped it, destroyed or corrupted it within a few years because it threatened such powers that be.

So while interesting, I don't see it happening for a variety of reasons.


L

cthia wrote:Re Solarian public opinion of an RMN attack on strategic targets in the Sol system, perhaps a way to go about metering it would be to coax Stacey Hauptman into opening up an affiliate news column on Old Earth to discuss it.

1. It will provide the pulse of the man in the street.
2. It will get them emotionally prepared for the possibility.
3. It'll ease the Solly public's worry of the intentions of Manticore beyond its own safety.
4. Stacey's column would ensure responsible journalism.

Hi Hutch,

All very true.

It took years to set Bolthole up, more years to start the R&D, more years to get the manufacturing and construction going, all of it [~15-20?] years the SL doesn't have.

Right now it appears they attempting to rely upon the same Sollie corporations they always have, not that they can afford a "Bolthole" even if they've thought of it yet.

Given RFC has stated the SL doesn't have 5 years, I don't think any attempted will get that far by then, and according to the Harrington doctrine, by the time they do, they'll have enemies/targets much nearer home than Manticore to worry about.

L

Hutch wrote:

Zakharra wrote:...... But I admit it is likely that the MAlign would know about any bolthole (or boltholes) before the GA does. It's also entirely possible that the SLN will be able to have boltholes that remain hidden. They have the room and space in their borders to shotgun multiple R&D centers/systems. And those systems don;t have to have an inhabitable planet on them. A system with several asteroid belts and no habitable worlds could still support a significant construction force.

No doubt the SL could establish a bolthole--but I doubt that they have one now (why go to the expense when you know, without a shadow of a doubt, that you are mightier than anything else in the Galaxy?). And as mentioned above, they need time...and that the GA does not plan to give them.