Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

Zakharra wrote:Rather than dumping them off on torch, which really doesn't need or have a use for them, why not given them to the Maya sector governor when things turn pear shaped for the SL? Secret deals can be made so the Mayan sector governor and Admiral in charge know about them and can make preparations to staff house them. It would give a friendly sector a good bump up in military capacity since it's going to be the SL the rebelling sectors are going to face in all likelihood, and help make the Maya sector a base of stability in the SL, and help ward off any wanna-be warlords that might want to snip off pieces of it.

Other than that, I'd say either turn them over to the Talbot systems as training aids to get people used to being in and working/living in space or just turn them over to the scrapyards in Talbot and scrap them.

Or just pitch them into the sun.

Why would Maya want obsolete SL walles. They already have a bunch of more modern ones under construction at Erehwon. You could give them to Erehwon for deconstruction for materials, but there doesn't seem to be much other use for them.

[quote="SharkHunterWhat about Meyers? aka Admiral Henke wants the House of Thomas to look at the model for Grayson... where the RMN gave their new allies a number of captured Havenite SD's which would be quite a bit closer to a Solarian SD's in capability by comparison. Then the Grayson's started the process of upgrading their "gifted" ships to RMN standards.

[/quote]


Here is my thoughts on the matter. You are forgetting about the FF Madras sector detachment under COMDR Thurgood which IIRC was an under strength BatCruRon plus escorts. The Kingdom of Meyers (SKMy) probably doesn't have much for trained naval personnel. They probably have trained merchant ship crew and officers and with RMN advisors and assistants field man 2-3 destroyers (1000 personnel) in a couple of months and probably man a full squadron within a T-year as a SDF. Within a few years (2-3) T-years the SKMy could probably man all of those ships. Where they would get the ships is from Thurgood's surrendered ships. Remember SLN light forces e.g. DD, CL and CA's are a lot more up to date than the SLN heavy forces.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Why would Maya want obsolete SL wallers. They already have a bunch of more modern ones under construction at Erehwon. You could give them to Erehwon for deconstruction for materials, but there doesn't seem to be much other use for them.

The SLN wallers are a solution in search of a problem. There's just no mission that makes sense for them. Anything they can fight can run away from them easily (so you can scare off low-budget pirates, but you can't catch them), and even hack-job Haven-style modern LACs and single-drive missiles in system defense pods provide far better quasi-fixed defenses for far lower operational costs.

Edit: And anyone with the infrastructure to support a squadron of wallers almost certainly is capable of building Haven-style modern LACs and SDM system-defense pods.

What about Meyers? aka Admiral Henke wants the House of Thomas to look at the model for Grayson... where the RMN gave their new allies a number of captured Havenite SD's which would be quite a bit closer to a Solarian SD's in capability by comparison. Then the Grayson's started the process of upgrading their "gifted" ships to RMN standards.

Here is my thoughts on the matter. You are forgetting about the FF Madras sector detachment under COMDR Thurgood which IIRC was an under strength BatCruRon plus escorts. The Kingdom of Meyers (SKMy) probably doesn't have much for trained naval personnel. They probably have trained merchant ship crew and officers and with RMN advisors and assistants field man 2-3 destroyers (1000 personnel) in a couple of months and probably man a full squadron within a T-year as a SDF. Within a few years (2-3) T-years the SKMy could probably man all of those ships. Where they would get the ships is from Thurgood's surrendered ships. Remember SLN light forces e.g. DD, CL and CA's are a lot more up to date than the SLN heavy forces.

And another nice thing about a destroyer or cruiser - it's not something that has to be able to take on another wall of battle to have a use. Meyers is likely to have more worries about pirates, slavers, and independence movements - Silesia II... - than about a wall of battle. Going forward, DD's and cruisers will have to deal with dual-drive missile threats, but Meyers has some years before that's their problem. Pod-based attacks are another thing the subwallers aren't expected to face either. All in all, FF units are a lot less painfully dated, technologically and operationally, than SD's.

SharkHunter wrote:All of the Solarian support structure for Thurgood's BC's is still there, including some techs, and you simply assign the conversion job to whoever the House Of Thomas tells you to. Granted, Meyers still needs GA tech in system for their long range defenses, but it's still be a heckova jump start for this new ally's SDF forces.

Not only the support structure, but Thurgood's ships are still in Meyers. Those smaller ships would be far more useful to the the Kingdom of Meyers than SDs that are several hundred light-years away without even ferry crews.

Weird Harold wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:All of the Solarian support structure for Thurgood's BC's is still there, including some techs, and you simply assign the conversion job to whoever the House Of Thomas tells you to. Granted, Meyers still needs GA tech in system for their long range defenses, but it's still be a heck-ova jump start for this new ally's SDF forces.

Not only the support structure, but Thurgood's ships are still in Meyers. Those smaller ships would be far more useful to the the Kingdom of Meyers than SD's that are several hundred light-years away without even ferry crews.

At best, the support infrastructure for Meyers would be fairly limited, to probably a limited shipyard and or a depot or repair ship. For example look at Monica.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Zakharra wrote:Rather than dumping them off on torch, which really doesn't need or have a use for them, why not given them to the Maya sector governor when things turn pear shaped for the SL? Secret deals can be made so the Mayan sector governor and Admiral in charge know about them and can make preparations to staff house them. It would give a friendly sector a good bump up in military capacity since it's going to be the SL the rebelling sectors are going to face in all likelihood, and help make the Maya sector a base of stability in the SL, and help ward off any wanna-be warlords that might want to snip off pieces of it.

Other than that, I'd say either turn them over to the Talbot systems as training aids to get people used to being in and working/living in space or just turn them over to the scrapyards in Talbot and scrap them.

Or just pitch them into the sun.

Why would Maya want obsolete SL walles. They already have a bunch of more modern ones under construction at Erehwon. You could give them to Erehwon for deconstruction for materials, but there doesn't seem to be much other use for them.

The SDs are only obsolete against the GA ships. Against the forces Maya is likely to face, they would be more than enough. At least for an immediate force advantage against the upcoming warlords that will be trying to bite off chunks of the Maya sector, and it would give their navy much valuable experience in large scale fleet movements and supply of such.

On Erewhon, I don't think that system is capable of building wallers. I read last night that Erewhon isn't capable of building ships of the wall. The biggest they can and have built are light ships (destroyers and cruisers). The SDs the Erewhonese did possess were built by the SL, not ships they built themselves. Unless they radically scale up their shipyards, they can't build any DN or SD/SD(P)s

http://www.davidweber.net/posts/12-erew ... sator.html

If there is no use for the ships, they should just be scrapped in the local yards in/near Spindle or just dropped into the sun and forgotten about.

Zakharra wrote: The SDs are only obsolete against the GA ships. Against the forces Maya is likely to face, they would be more than enough. At least for an immediate force advantage against the upcoming warlords that will be trying to bite off chunks of the Maya sector, and it would give their navy much valuable experience in large scale fleet movements and supply of such.

On Erewhon, I don't think that system is capable of building wallers. I read last night that Erewhon isn't capable of building ships of the wall. The biggest they can and have built are light ships (destroyers and cruisers). The SDs the Erewhonese did possess were built by the SL, not ships they built themselves. Unless they radically scale up their shipyards, they can't build any DN or SD/SD(P)s

http://www.davidweber.net/posts/12-erew ... sator.html

If there is no use for the ships, they should just be scrapped in the local yards in/near Spindle or just dropped into the sun and forgotten about.

That was probably true during the Haven Wars, but there is ample textev in Torch of Freedom (and some in Cauldron of Ghosts) that Erewhon is building wallers for Maya Sector, along with smaller ships. They are still 1-2 years from deployment, but the capability (funded mostly by Maya) is there.

Given that Rozack already has lighter units better than anything FF has, pod BC's that should be able to handle SL SD's, and those SD(P)'s coming from Erewhon, and a 'special relationship' with Haven (Cauldron of Ghosts), I can't see him spending time and money on ships that he'll be discarding in less than 2-3 year's time.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

saber964 wrote:[quote="SharkHunterWhat about Meyers? aka Admiral Henke wants the House of Thomas to look at the model for Grayson... where the RMN gave their new allies a number of captured Havenite SD's which would be quite a bit closer to a Solarian SD's in capability by comparison. Then the Grayson's started the process of upgrading their "gifted" ships to RMN standards.

Here is my thoughts on the matter. You are forgetting about the FF Madras sector detachment under COMDR Thurgood which IIRC was an under strength BatCruRon plus escorts. The Kingdom of Meyers (SKMy) probably doesn't have much for trained naval personnel. They probably have trained merchant ship crew and officers and with RMN advisors and assistants field man 2-3 destroyers (1000 personnel) in a couple of months and probably man a full squadron within a T-year as a SDF. Within a few years (2-3) T-years the SKMy could probably man all of those ships. Where they would get the ships is from Thurgood's surrendered ships. Remember SLN light forces e.g. DD, CL and CA's are a lot more up to date than the SLN heavy forces.[/quote]


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The Gladiator Class CA's are (per Service of the Sword) much closer to RMN / Grayson standard than other SLN ships -- I will speculate Prince Consort / early StarKnight;
The BC's "might" be Nevada's but likely Indefatigable's.
Max 450 G's accel; below the RMN prior to Basilisk / 2nd Yeltsin.
They might be upgradeable to FTL with a RMN Pinnace Comm pod attached.
They would scare away the light-weight pirates and small SLN detachments only.
The SLN SD's, as noted elsewhere are best for removing their Grasers / Lasers and PDLC's then scrapping for the refined alloy.

-- Stewart

Zakharra wrote:The SDs are only obsolete against the GA ships. Against the forces Maya is likely to face, they would be more than enough. At least for an immediate force advantage against the upcoming warlords that will be trying to bite off chunks of the Maya sector, and it would give their navy much valuable experience in large scale fleet movements and supply of such.

Erm... no. The SLN SDs are likely obsolete against pretty much anyone else's SDs. You may be thinking that the SLN was, pre-Havenite wars, one of the more advanced forces out there, and Solarian defense contractors were certainly able to help Haven a lot. But the thing is those second and third-tier SDFs and non-League navies... they don't have any SDs at all. And much of what shady League-based defense contractors sold to Haven was better than what the SLN was buying.

The polities with SDs are either in the GA (with much better SDs than the SLN's) or League member SDFs (absolute worst case they have the same SDs, but anyone facing real security threats or dreams of playing conquistador almost certainly has at minimum laser head-era SDs ala the last-gen pre-pod Haven sector models).

The bottom line is pretty much anyone that could operate the SLN SDs 'now' doesn't need them, and in the time it takes to build up sufficient capabilities to operate them (both in terms of infrastructure and trained personnel) they could build much more effective defenses at far lower costs even without technical assistance from the GA.