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Solar League Assembly

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Re: Solar League Assembly
Post by drothgery   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:50 pm

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james99 wrote:The most offensive thing that the Solatian League and MA do willingly is kill millions of people just to game the system.
Unless outright rebellions against OFS are a lot more common, and larger scale, than I think they are (or you're counting second-order effects of OFS' actions, like the lack of access to Prolong in much of the Verge, as killing people), I don't know that the League has willingly killed millions of people. OFS may have willingly killed thousands, but that was quietly done behind the scenes where very few people back in the Old League realized it was happening.
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Re: Solar League Assembly
Post by stewart   » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:16 pm

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[quote="Howard T. Map-addict"]Does China see the USA *or* Russia as an equal?
Does China see India as an equal?
Do we Americans see anyone as our equal?

HTM


--------------------

Depends on what setting you define "equal"

Militarily -- certainly not
As a sovereign nation, there is at least a diplomatic fig leaf that other nations are equals. Currently, the SL does not effectively see other star nations as sovereign in their own space. The protectorate system is the result.

-- Stewart
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Re: Solar League Assembly
Post by lyonheart   » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:07 am

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Ho Rob,

I think that was one of those issues the alliance treaty set aside for further discussion, probably with the SEM willing to consider their reinstatement into the RoH as valid referendums if it could visit and spot check to confirm they were truly freely voted in.

Given Eloise and Tom etc, I kinda suspect they were as free of coercion as such wartime plebiscites could be.

NTM, thanks to Ariel, Elizabeth knows that now as well as Honor.

L


Armed Neo-Bob wrote:
SWM wrote:*quote="JeffEngel"*
Could be. I think Manticore is still regarding annexation as a special case rather than as the default expectation, in the fashion of the Andermani Empire, Solarian League, and People's Republic of Haven.*quote*
Agree that they do not consider annexation a default expectation. But they are definitely open to it, and expect some systems to request to join; we know because they specifically wanted to give captured Havenite systems the option to join if they wanted. And that was under the High Ridge administration!


I remember President Pritchart was unhappy at the prospect of systems close to Haven joining the Star Kingdom; I don't recall anyone in the HR side discussing annexing any of the liberated, formerly Havenite Systems. Didn't hear whether they became Havenite systems --officially, anyway, they are probably "protectorates" for now--after Thunderbolt "liberated" them again. Just that idiot Younger being all belligerent at the treaty negotiations.

Rob
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Solar League Assembly
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:50 pm

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stewart wrote:
Howard T. Map-addict wrote:Does China see the USA *or* Russia as an equal?
Does China see India as an equal?
Do we Americans see anyone as our equal?

HTM


--------------------

Depends on what setting you define "equal"

Militarily -- certainly not
As a sovereign nation, there is at least a diplomatic fig leaf that other nations are equals. Currently, the SL does not effectively see other star nations as sovereign in their own space. The protectorate system is the result.

-- Stewart


Also, China and India have populations that dwarf ours; whether they are militarily our match is subject to change. But no one in the Honorverse is even a tenth the size of the League; centuries of unhurried expansion with no political rival leads to a lot of tunnel vision.

I think RFC referred to it as a sort of recurrence of "Manifest Destiny" type thinking. or non-thinking.

Rob
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Re: Solar League Assembly
Post by drothgery   » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:11 pm

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Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Also, China and India have populations that dwarf ours; whether they are militarily our match is subject to change. But no one in the Honorverse is even a tenth the size of the League; centuries of unhurried expansion with no political rival leads to a lot of tunnel vision.
The PRH at its peak was pretty close to that (about 20% on a simple system count, though economically far weaker of course).
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