Honorverse ramblings and musings

KNick wrote:

Amaroq wrote: I wonder how much Technodyne knows or doesn't know about the Alignment? Perhaps some of the higher-ups have a clue?

Since they have a seat on the Mesan Board of Directors, it seems to me that TIY is a Mesan company. If that is not commonly known, once Mike finds out it might move up in priority for a visit.

Amaroq, KNick, interesting thoughts. I always thought that Technodyne was a Sol-Based company with major interests in Mesa (for example, a lot of foreign car companies now build cars in the US; near where I live we have a Toyota engine plant).

But the point of being on the Board of Directors in Mesa does tend to indicate that perhaps they are founded and managed from Mesa, but have have massive interests in the SL (IIRC, quite a few executives were being investigated after the Monica fiasco and a few indicted.

But it is a puzzlement, I agree.

As for what they know, I expect they know as much as the other Board members we saw in Cauldron of Ghosts--a vague feeling of not being as 'in control' as they think they are, but no proof and moreover, no real interest in trying to discern the truth.

IMHO.

A Rising Thunder

Maybe so, she told that corner, but Crandall was going up against Manties, and whatever new designs the Manties may’ve come up with, we know what Beowulf has. Oh, they might have a couple of little wrinkles we don’t know about, but they sure as hell don’t have the Manties’ new damned designs! If they did, we’d know about it already.

It was never quite clear to me, but just how much of Manty tech did Beowulf have? And wouldn't just having Manty tech cause all sorts of legal problems for Beowulf? I wouldn't be surprised if the SLN took military action against the 'Wulf.

cthia wrote:A Rising Thunder

It was never quite clear to me, but just how much of Manty tech did Beowulf have? And wouldn't just having Manty tech cause all sorts of legal problems for Beowulf?

Beowulf selling Solarian military tech to the Manties might cause legal issues, but I'm not sure how Beowulf buying Manty tech would. I mean, it's not like they'd be giving away SLN secrets in doing so. It'd arguably be embarrassing for Sollie defense contractors if a core world decided they'd prefer to buy Manticoran stuff, but embarrassing defense contractors is not illegal, especially in a federation as loose as the League.

Hi Drothgery,

Beowulf is and has been Manticore's largest single system trading pardner, while the AE are the largest single polity trading pardner although that may change with Haven, except the Andermanni tech is far closer to Manticore's civilian sector and have decades of far better connections, experience etc.

Beowulf's civilian tech is also comparable to Manticore's, and the deal with the RMN to not highlight the RMN's superiority probably including not buying any officially.

But I suspect the Beowulf military-industrial complex to have lots of comparable stuff it knows works ready to instal or use whenever it had too, such as system defense missile pods, etc.

L

drothgery wrote:

cthia wrote:**A Rising Thunder**
**quote**
It was never quite clear to me, but just how much of Manty tech did Beowulf have? And wouldn't just having Manty tech cause all sorts of legal problems for Beowulf?

Beowulf selling Solarian military tech to the Manties might cause legal issues, but I'm not sure how Beowulf buying Manty tech would. I mean, it's not like they'd be giving away SLN secrets in doing so. It'd arguably be embarrassing for Sollie defense contractors if a core world decided they'd prefer to buy Manticoran stuff, but embarrassing defense contractors is not illegal, especially in a federation as loose as the League.[/quote]

lyonheart wrote:Beowulf's civilian tech is also comparable to Manticore's, and the deal with the RMN to not highlight the RMN's superiority probably including not buying any officially.

But I suspect the Beowulf military-industrial complex to have lots of comparable stuff it knows works ready to instal or use whenever it had too, such as system defense missile pods, etc.

It wouldn't be a stretch or difficult to hide if Beowulf SDF ships incorporated Beowulf-built, Manticoran tech, such as missile tubes capable of handling some level of MDM or ECM/Firecontrol functions above and beyond SLN capabilities. Any of that type of RMN/Beowulf tech advances could be operated in "SLN Observer Present" mode.

Launchers would be the most obvious difference but I wouldn't expect a SLN Observer to get down and dirty in the workings of "inferior SDF tech." Especially if the performance observed matched SLN capability.

IIRC, one of the Pearls mentions that any new style missile tube can fire any old-style missile that is the same size or smaller -- that implies that launchers capable of launching Manticoran MDMs should be able to launch SLN missiles appropriate to the class. (or maybe even a class higher?)

If Beowulf has incorporated tech compatible with Manticoran DDM or MDM missiles and/or FTL comm, they wouldn't necessarily have to reveal that capability during jpoint exercises with the SLN. It's also probable that any tech observed by SLN observers would be dismissed as thoroughly as reports of RMN/RHN/IAN technology/

cthia wrote:A Rising Thunder

It was never quite clear to me, but just how much of Manty tech did Beowulf have? And wouldn't just having Manty tech cause all sorts of legal problems for Beowulf?

drothgery wrote:
Beowulf selling Solarian military tech to the Manties might cause legal issues, but I'm not sure how Beowulf buying Manty tech would. I mean, it's not like they'd be giving away SLN secrets in doing so. It'd arguably be embarrassing for Sollie defense contractors if a core world decided they'd prefer to buy Manticoran stuff, but embarrassing defense contractors is not illegal, especially in a federation as loose as the League.

My concern was a bit more superficial than that perhaps, but just as poignant. Being a part of the league, couldn't the SLN consider that Beowulf had an 'obligation' to share with them the superiority of Manty tech, and even allow them access to hardware? The league could even loosely, misconstrue, Beowulf's actions as traitorous?

Surely, if there had been a de facto declaration of war these considerations would have definitively come into play. Or does the very absence of said formal declaration preclude Beowulf's obligation in that respect. Seems all catch-22.

I don't know how formally accepted this is, but I have practiced the art of posting by proxy for my twelve-year-old niece. Several of my friends in Romania are arguing heatedly about a concern that I have agreed to post. They are still too frightened of 'American temperament' inside the forums, as they put it. They're still not willing to 'put their heads on the chopping block.' Perhaps I can lure them in by proxy.

At any rate, Bucharesti is heating up...

Considering the second "Battle of Manticore," where so many opposing missiles are in flight, and textev mentions on occasions where these missiles must 'pass' each other in flight, why aren't there collisions and collective desruction from mutual annihilation?

Sabrina: French by birth, Romanian by design.
Mira: Romanian
Mihai: Romanian
Andrew: Ro
Alexandra: Ro
Dana: Ro
Marja: Bulgarian
Elena: Bulgarian
Natalja: Russian

All living in Bucharest, Romania

Weird Harold wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Beowulf's civilian tech is also comparable to Manticore's, and the deal with the RMN to not highlight the RMN's superiority probably including not buying any officially.

But I suspect the Beowulf military-industrial complex to have lots of comparable stuff it knows works ready to instal or use whenever it had too, such as system defense missile pods, etc.

It wouldn't be a stretch or difficult to hide if Beowulf SDF ships incorporated Beowulf-built, Manticoran tech, such as missile tubes capable of handling some level of MDM or ECM/Firecontrol functions above and beyond SLN capabilities. Any of that type of RMN/Beowulf tech advances could be operated in "SLN Observer Present" mode.

Launchers would be the most obvious difference but I wouldn't expect a SLN Observer to get down and dirty in the workings of "inferior SDF tech." Especially if the performance observed matched SLN capability.

IIRC, one of the Pearls mentions that any new style missile tube can fire any old-style missile that is the same size or smaller -- that implies that launchers capable of launching Manticoran MDMs should be able to launch SLN missiles appropriate to the class. (or maybe even a class higher?)

If Beowulf has incorporated tech compatible with Manticoran DDM or MDM missiles and/or FTL comm, they wouldn't necessarily have to reveal that capability during jpoint exercises with the SLN. It's also probable that any tech observed by SLN observers would be dismissed as thoroughly as reports of RMN/RHN/IAN technology/

I think we have textev that the decision had been made by both Beowulf and Manticore not to incorporate Manty tech into Beowulf SDF lest it fall into SLN hands.

Don

cthia wrote:Considering the second "Battle of Manticore," where so many opposing missiles are in flight, and textev mentions on occasions where these missiles must 'pass' each other in flight, why aren't there collisions and collective desruction from mutual annihilation?

Short answer. space is big. Really big.

If we assume a missile wedge requires 100 km of space, which is almost certainly way too much but is easy to calculate with, and that missiles need to be within 50,000 km of their target, then you can have a wave-front of missile 100,000 km wide, spaced 100 km apart, allowing (100,000/100) 1000 missiles wide and 1000 missiles long, or one million missiles coming in in a plane. That's not counting any use of the third dimension, with missiles coming one behind another.

Note that none of the missile waves at the Battle of Manticore were nearly that size. There's a lot of space for missiles to pass each other en route. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some collisions in e confusion, but ... Space is big. Really big. And both sides share an interest in routing missiles so they don't run into the other side's missiles.

Weird Harold wrote:It wouldn't be a stretch or difficult to hide if Beowulf SDF ships incorporated Beowulf-built, Manticoran tech, such as missile tubes capable of handling some level of MDM or ECM/Firecontrol functions above and beyond SLN capabilities. Any of that type of RMN/Beowulf tech advances could be operated in "SLN Observer Present" mode.

Launchers would be the most obvious difference but I wouldn't expect a SLN Observer to get down and dirty in the workings of "inferior SDF tech." Especially if the performance observed matched SLN capability.

IIRC, one of the Pearls mentions that any new style missile tube can fire any old-style missile that is the same size or smaller -- that implies that launchers capable of launching Manticoran MDMs should be able to launch SLN missiles appropriate to the class. (or maybe even a class higher?)

If Beowulf has incorporated tech compatible with Manticoran DDM or MDM missiles and/or FTL comm, they wouldn't necessarily have to reveal that capability during jpoint exercises with the SLN. It's also probable that any tech observed by SLN observers would be dismissed as thoroughly as reports of RMN/RHN/IAN technology/

However (IIRC) we don't know how newly constructed Beowulf's SDs are, nor how recently they've had a major overhaul.

Even ERM missiles are larger, and require larger tubes than 'classic' SDMs did. And Manticore discovered that it was particularly easy (or cost effective) to overhaul tube SDs and upgrade their tubes. That's why most of their remaining tube wallers were never upgraded to (internally) launch anything but SDMs

(And I don't see Beowulf having had enough lead time to have built in margin for tube upgrades; not even Manticore did that and they were best possitioned to have estimates of how must more room would be needed for tubes and loading hardware)


Unless Beowulf did a major gutting and rebuild on their SDs in the last 8 years or so (post-Buttercup) I don't think it's likely that they have longer ranged internal missiles. (At least not unless they traded off warhead power for range. They might be able to launch something like a CA-weight Mk 14 ERM with minimal modifications; maybe)