What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.

Hi Rob,

Thanks for bringing up several points.

We don't know enough about the structure of the OFS to know how such non protectorate client states are treated within the OFS hierarchy, they may be outside the OFS sector jurisdiction because of their separate status, and have a more direct link to the OFS headquarters.

Since no map of OFS sectors has been given or the adjacent sector mentioned, what sector Saltash might belong to, if it does, we don't know; but since Madras seems to be the one they worry about in the TQ, it may be much larger than it first appeared to be in SoS, when the Talbot Cluster seemed large enough to eventually be its own sector, according to the implied practice of SoS.

I noticed Dubroskaya's apparent separate status as well, that implies she wasn't being sent to reinforce Thurgood, but possibly on an independent patrol or sweep thru the SL associated systems adjacent to the TQ.

However this plethora of BC's now is in strict contrast to the view after SoS, when I suggested years ago at the bar that the RTU, which had a number of heavy cruisers might be at least looking at a possible [even small] future BC design, was vigorously critiqued by RFC on down; BC's were rare as hen's eggs out there, one reason Thurgood only had a single division of heavy cruisers in SoS [and mentioned again in SFtS] was because they were enough, the RTU had no need to even consider such a design, etc, etc.

Then the constant downgrading of SLN ships in the more recent textev pushed the unexplained text substitution of Thurgood's switch to BC's from the previously mentioned CA's.

Regarding Duenas, OTOH I'm not sure MacArtney is going to have time to crucify him, and then I wonder if Rajani would squelch this report because it counters or contradicts the whole thesis for Filareta's "Operation Raging Justice" that Manticore is on the psychological ropes, and thus not push for Duenas's removal even if he did get 4 FF BC's destroyed.

The round trip to Sol and back is at least 2 month's without any bureaucratic deliberating, so the message or reports arrive in May, before Filareta had even left Tasmania yet, so the mandarin's policy is wait and see; which might allow time for Duenas's family connection to try to rescue him by scapegoating someone else, or its so obvious he's immediately relieved.

Once Filareta's fate is known in late June or early June the winds may have shifted again into making Duenas a strong defender of the SL so when he arrives back in Sol he's heralded as a hero until O'Hanrahan points out he got 6000 spacers killed in a way that might have prevented getting Filareta and 2 million more killed if Rajani hadn't suppressed the initial report.

RFC can play this is so many fascinating directions, if Duenas is ever mentioned again.

L


[quote="Armed Neo-Bob"]Hi Lyonheart,

you seem to be engaged on this, but. . .

Saltash might be in the Madras Sector area of interest, but it is not Sollie territory; it isn't even a real protectorate.That was covered in the text. Damian's title of Governor is a courtesy, not reality. And he did NOT send the report through Verrochio, which he would have, if he was subordinate to that office.

I assumed Saltash and Dueñas (sp?) were getting support from somewhere else, as Thurgood wasn't talking about that group of ships when he briefed Verrochio just before Yucel headed for Mobius.

In Shadow of Saganami, Thurgood was commodore of a cruiser squadron; Monica was a real squeeeally wheel, so when we see him again they're battlecruisers.

But Saltash is hundreds of lightyears from Meyers, if there is truth in the paper map. The sheer size of the Talbott Quadrant doesn't mean all the neighbors have the same-size territory. Sector doesn't seem to have a single definition.

And Saltash, as an individual system, doesn't have either the humanitarian problems of Moebius/Seraphim/Loomis, nor the economic strength to warrent interfering without need.

I think that the response from OFS HQ will be enough to deal with Damien. McCartney will indeed, crucify him.

Regards,

Rob









[quote="lyonheart"]Hi FallsFromTrees,

We don't know the OFS sector sizes, which might not be uniform; though I've suggested a uniform size based on 256 equal sections of 22.5 degrees on a side that are ~100 light years deep [~2+ layers], but the textev suggests the sectors are much bigger, so Saltash might indeed be in the Madras.

From the textev of Oversteegen blocking Thurgood, the RMN hyper footprint included 5 light cruisers, ie Rolands.

So Zavala might have gone to Meyers, even though Mike apparently left all her DD's behind.

RFC will have to sort things like this out sooner or later.

L
[/quote][/quote]

Hi,

yeah, you are thoroughly engaged. But you're overthinking it a bit.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Rob,

Thanks for bringing up several points.

We don't know enough about the structure of the OFS to know how such non protectorate client states are treated within the OFS hierarchy, they may be outside the OFS sector jurisdiction because of their separate status, and have a more direct link to the OFS headquarters.

Not the normal bureaucratic process. The bureaucrats will have a suitable heirarchy in place to keep scruffy unimportant neo-barbs well away from disturbing important people. Dueñas is a minor, useless idiot sent where he was so no one would have to listen to him whine. He'll report to someone much further down; he was hoping to create an incident that would bring him to the attention of his superiors in a positive light; after what happened, he had to send a report in direct because it was a catastrophe. He probably had a standing order to report catastrophes--especially any disasters involving Fleet units and losses. Normally, wasting someone important's time on Saltash would not result in good things for him.

lyonheart wrote:Since no map of OFS sectors has been given or the adjacent sector mentioned, what sector Saltash might belong to, if it does, we don't know; but since Madras seems to be the one they worry about in the TQ, it may be much larger than it first appeared to be in SoS, when the Talbot Cluster seemed large enough to eventually be its own sector, according to the implied practice of SoS.

If the old Talbott Cluster was 9 times the volume of the Silesian Confederacy, and if it is 400 LY from Celebrant to Tillerman, then the Talbott quadrant ought to be bigger than the old League's entire volume, or pretty close to it. I think that was given in the text, but it might have been a Pearl, about the distance.

lyonheart wrote:I noticed Dubroskaya's apparent separate status as well, that implies she wasn't being sent to reinforce Thurgood, but possibly on an independent patrol or sweep thru the SL associated systems adjacent to the TQ.

<snipped >
that about runs me out of time. But both Dubroskaya's division, and Payun's at Zunker, are not full squadrons. At Saltash, we learn the others are either scattered or in maintenence. But the destroyers are his nominal standing force; Dubroskaya seems to have been on a mission to reinforce Sollie presence along the borders, and not in their ordinary bailiwick.

lyonheart wrote:The round trip to Sol and back is at least 2 month's without any bureaucratic deliberating, so the message or reports arrive in May, before Filareta had even left Tasmania yet, so the mandarin's policy is wait and see;

SNIP

I thought it was April or May a when Zuvala was dispatched from Montana? It is a month or so each way for the RMN, then another 5 or 6 weeks for reports to filter home. The comm lag, for Dueñas would be about the same, with his dispatch boat to Mesa. But I was under the impression the news from Saltash wouldn't arrive before Filareta's Disaster; so we will never see the first reaction to it. Too many other disasters.

YMMV

Rob

I'm think Governor Duenas finds himself in a small room with bars on the windows, because he's a blow-hard idiot that the top three other individuals in-system had to subvert to save anything.

Think of it as advancement, Klingon empire style, without actually needing to waste a pulsar dart or knife stroke. Heck, the RMN can might choose to suggest that the good former-governor be tried for piracy if need be to make sure he's out of the way.

SharkHunter wrote:I'm think Governor Duenas finds himself in a small room with bars on the windows, because he's a blow-hard idiot that the top three other individuals in-system had to subvert to save anything.

Think of it as advancement, Klingon empire style, without actually needing to waste a pulsar dart or knife stroke. Heck, the RMN can might choose to suggest that the good former-governor be tried for piracy if need be to make sure he's out of the way.

Actually, I expect the local authorities to inform OFS they have resolved their differences, and strongly desire to stay nuetral. The Solarian presence there is unneeded. "Thanks for stopping by, and we appreciate your help. Don't let the screen door hit you on the ass on the way out."

Why would anyone jail Dumbass Damien? That costs money. Just give him a pink slip.

Saltash and others may need to call on TQ for assistance, but they'd be better off just getting a few patrol ships and some tech assistance from the Quadrant. A few Rembrandt-built light warships and LACs would be enough for a neutral. And, the Rembrandters had a fairly "decent for a Verge world" Navy--good enough Khumalo was using them on his anti-piracy patrols.

Rob

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Why would anyone jail Dumbass Damien? That costs money. Just give him a pink slip.

Because Dumbass Damien has some political connections and likely also some transtellar connections that need to be broken. Likely those folks will toss him under the bus ANYWAY, but you don't give him any chances to use those connections. Something along the lines of anyone in the area/ofs/ff asking "why is the governor in jail?" the Lt. Gov says honestly:

"He's not the governor any more, he illegally detained X freighters according to interstellar agreement Y, and when confronted with the charge that to do so was piracy, he continued to break the law. As you know, in our nobly minded Solarian League, we don't just space them like the dang neobarbs, but the sentence for piracy here in Saltash is X + Y years."

SharkHunter wrote:

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Why would anyone jail Dumbass Damien? That costs money. Just give him a pink slip.

Because Dumbass Damien has some political connections and likely also some transtellar connections that need to be broken. Likely those folks will toss him under the bus ANYWAY, but you don't give him any chances to use those connections. Something along the lines of anyone in the area/ofs/ff asking "why is the governor in jail?" the Lt. Gov says honestly:

"He's not the governor any more, he illegally detained X freighters according to interstellar agreement Y, and when confronted with the charge that to do so was piracy, he continued to break the law. As you know, in our nobly minded Solarian League, we don't just space them like the dang neobarbs, but the sentence for piracy here in Saltash is X + Y years."

Wishful thinking.
A cousin or sister who is someone's secretary is a "political connection," I suppose. And whoever supported sending him to the back of beyond--if that wasn't just to get rid of him. And whatever transtellers are doing business in a remote and poor verge planet; but he only just got there, so no long term alliances. His importance is mostly in his own mind.

Actual justice will never rear its head; and the Verge planets aren't going to be sufficiently confident in their security to challenge the League over jurisdiction. He'll just fade out into obscurity.

Rob

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Actual justice will never rear its head; and the Verge planets aren't going to be sufficiently confident in their security to challenge the League over jurisdiction. He'll just fade out into obscurity.

Obscurity like the former Havenite Consul to Medusa; who was demoted to Dolist and drafted as an Insec informer; who helped Rob Pierre form the Committee of Public Safety?

That kind of obscurity?

Weird Harold wrote:

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Actual justice will never rear its head; and the Verge planets aren't going to be sufficiently confident in their security to challenge the League over jurisdiction. He'll just fade out into obscurity.

Obscurity like the former Havenite Consul to Medusa; who was demoted to Dolist and drafted as an Insec informer; who helped Rob Pierre form the Committee of Public Safety?

That kind of obscurity?

To take him one step out of total obscurity, that particular idiot was Wallace Canning; I think he is a bit smarter than Damien. But he was almost certainly dead within hours of the coup.

Rob

I liked what you wrote. I don't atm have time to reread it, but he might take the time to say something, and an officer of his cabibre might say such words if he thought they would be of use.

A few mights, or maybes there, but it is a believable post.

Hi Rob,

You are so polite!

I think you're probably right about there being another layer of bureaucracy specifically for the non-protectorates like Saltash, ie justified by its different separate status, which is was I meant.

I don't doubt he and the OFS has standing orders to report any threats to the league's security, but that's really the responsibility and duty of the SLN, or Captain Myau, and any attempt to interfere with her doing her duty could be the pretext needed to relieve him.

While the TQ may be close to the distances mentioned, ie the 300-400 LY diameter of the SL, I suspect the TQ's actual volume is considerably less.

Given how rare SLN/FF BC's were in the Madras sector before Monica, Dubroskaya's squadron is a mystery, but her detachments aren't.

Zavala left before news of OB reached Montana, so probably early March and arriving in Saltash in the second half, so his assumed db [or Myau's DD] should have reached Sol by the end of May or before Filareta leaves Tasmania, so until they know what happened to Filareta, which was July, the OFS bureaucrats in Old Chicago have around 2 month's to kick Duenas's future back and forth if Myau and the Lt. Governor etc didn't already take care of him and send a message not to bother.

L

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Hi,

yeah, you are thoroughly engaged. But you're overthinking it a bit.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Rob,

Thanks for bringing up several points.

We don't know enough about the structure of the OFS to know how such non protectorate client states are treated within the OFS hierarchy, they may be outside the OFS sector jurisdiction because of their separate status, and have a more direct link to the OFS headquarters.

Not the normal bureaucratic process. The bureaucrats will have a suitable heirarchy in place to keep scruffy unimportant neo-barbs well away from disturbing important people. Dueñas is a minor, useless idiot sent where he was so no one would have to listen to him whine. He'll report to someone much further down; he was hoping to create an incident that would bring him to the attention of his superiors in a positive light; after what happened, he had to send a report in direct because it was a catastrophe. He probably had a standing order to report catastrophes--especially any disasters involving Fleet units and losses. Normally, wasting someone important's time on Saltash would not result in good things for him.

lyonheart wrote:Since no map of OFS sectors has been given or the adjacent sector mentioned, what sector Saltash might belong to, if it does, we don't know; but since Madras seems to be the one they worry about in the TQ, it may be much larger than it first appeared to be in SoS, when the Talbot Cluster seemed large enough to eventually be its own sector, according to the implied practice of SoS.

If the old Talbott Cluster was 9 times the volume of the Silesian Confederacy, and if it is 400 LY from Celebrant to Tillerman, then the Talbott quadrant ought to be bigger than the old League's entire volume, or pretty close to it. I think that was given in the text, but it might have been a Pearl, about the distance.

lyonheart wrote:I noticed Dubroskaya's apparent separate status as well, that implies she wasn't being sent to reinforce Thurgood, but possibly on an independent patrol or sweep thru the SL associated systems adjacent to the TQ.

<snipped >
that about runs me out of time. But both Dubroskaya's division, and Payun's at Zunker, are not full squadrons. At Saltash, we learn the others are either scattered or in maintenence. But the destroyers are his nominal standing force; Dubroskaya seems to have been on a mission to reinforce Sollie presence along the borders, and not in their ordinary bailiwick.

lyonheart wrote:The round trip to Sol and back is at least 2 month's without any bureaucratic deliberating, so the message or reports arrive in May, before Filareta had even left Tasmania yet, so the mandarin's policy is wait and see;

SNIP

I thought it was April or May a when Zuvala was dispatched from Montana? It is a month or so each way for the RMN, then another 5 or 6 weeks for reports to filter home. The comm lag, for Dueñas would be about the same, with his dispatch boat to Mesa. But I was under the impression the news from Saltash wouldn't arrive before Filareta's Disaster; so we will never see the first reaction to it. Too many other disasters.

YMMV

Rob