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Will the RF really be all that hard to find?

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Re: Will the RF really be all that hard to find?
Post by lyonheart   » Wed May 28, 2014 8:43 pm

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Hi WhiteCold,

Kudos for being succinct, again.

L


Whitecold wrote:
The E wrote:Question: Is it even important to find the members of the RF? And, once you have found them, what can or should you do with them?

In other words, is the Beowulf code so vital to the Honorverse that no government angling for amendments to it can be tolerated? Because, at the end of the day, that's the basic tenet of the Mesan Alignment, the idea that humanity could be much better if it weren't for Beowulf holding things back; Is embarking on a crusade to enforce Beowulfan standards really a good thing?

Don't get me wrong, the Alignment (or, at least, its current crop of leaders) needs to be persecuted for the war they've started, but I can't quite see the RF as evil.


The RF is just the respectable front the MAlign wants to establish. It is or rather will be entirely their creation and under their control.
I agree with you that modifying the code is not necessarily bad, but the RF and the MAlign are two sides of the same thing.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Will the RF really be all that hard to find?
Post by KNick   » Wed May 28, 2014 9:03 pm

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lyonheart wrote:Hi The E,

Why not?

They're part and parcel of the Malign, how are they different or better?

Given they're the front of the MAlign, Alpha line members committed to the destruction of 99.999% of the human race, I think they are 'persons of interest' to the GA.

L


WE, as readers, know that the RF is a front for the MAlign. No one outside of those from the MAlign in direct contact with them have that knowledge yet. Until someone from an impeccable intelligence source (C&Z) can prove that they are in fact a front organization, they will be treated the same as any other polity.
_


Try to take a fisherman's fish and you will be tomorrows bait!!!
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Re: Will the RF really be all that hard to find?
Post by lyonheart   » Wed May 28, 2014 10:33 pm

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Hi Brigade XO,

You might be right, but I don't see this stage of the collapse of the SL and post SL reconstruction dragging on for decades.

I don't expect the GA to start taking tissue samples of system leaders immediately, in fact I didn't mention taking any tissue samples at all, though I expect those reacting badly to treecats should expect such information being sought as an understandable part of the process of checking them out.

Given the DNA tech that Beowulf and ONI's CIT teams have demonstrated, I think keeping the GA from finding the DNA they're looking for will be rather difficult, given how discrete they'll be. ;)

Given how imperfectly human the MAlign has proven to be, Albrecht doesn't have much patience or wisdom, so his mistakes will continue to sabotage the great plan like an ever growing avalanche; in any event I don't think treecat lie detectors were included in the great plan.

Again, I'm still very curious why the patsy assassin was so hostile seeing a treecat for the first time.

Why attach such an obvious trigger?

Was it because the Mesan 'programmers' weren't certain the treecat couldn't see through the happy patsy?

Evidently another human mistake that has proven quite costly to the MAlign already.

L


Brigade XO wrote:Just when do you think that the GA is going to be able to take tissue samples and sit the leadership (an awful lot of it of what WE know are the RF members) to have a conversation or two which includes very direct and specific questions about knowledge and membership or being part of the "Alignment" (in any one of several names) ?

Even if you have a tissue sample- and no head of state is going to give you that on their own planet- just what are you looking for? That they share "some" genetic markers with genetic slaves?. That they share markers with Alighment Alpha, Beta and Gama lines--and you have reference samples of HOW MANY of which groups from which people?

The plan is to have the RF coalesce out of independent worlds that are looking to both protect themselves from the problems durring the breakup of the SL and chaos that fillows. These are ALL systems with long-term, stable political systems that have been against genetic slavery for centuries. They are NOT going to run right out and make a 12 system confederation or other alliance. They are each going to create (or appear to evolve) their own set of allied systems in defence pacts and other agreements and will PROGRESS over years and years into what will become the RF.

Albrect is very specific in his discussion with the dozen RF leaders that should ANY of the planned aquistions on their own system's list of targets balk, they should be just left to follow their own ideas instead of ANY appearence of forcing them into the new alliances. The proto-RF groups are to be above reproach in their dealing with other systems and having ANYTHING that looks like it could connect them with the Alignment.

This whole process is intended to take decades, even centuries, and anything the Alignment wants to implement as far as genetic tinkering and policies changes, they will come in very quietly and very deep from within what would appear to be normal research and development in the medical community or another source "out in the open' on a member world and "slowly" make its way into more general use. They don't even have to do that, they can just "upgrade" the children of Star and other lines by simple replacement (and adjusting the records) to keep their people "up to date".

By the time the RF actually forms as a political/military/economic/scientific power, they will be a major player with the GA and other Star Nations in the Post-League universe.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Will the RF really be all that hard to find?
Post by cralkhi   » Wed May 28, 2014 10:38 pm

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I think if the lie-detection abilities of treecats become widely known, most politicians will be uncomfortable with them, MAlign or not...
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Re: Will the RF really be all that hard to find?
Post by lyonheart   » Wed May 28, 2014 10:47 pm

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Hi KNick,

I didn't say they wouldn't be treated differently than any other leader.

But when a GA TF visits, the head of state typically invites the CO to dinner or be invited aboard the flagship for a tour if they're curious [being a distinguished former naval officer], only to run into a treecat among the CO's guard aboard or on the surface, or just one of the RF's MAlign/GAUL type guards' reaction to the treecat triggers a fiasco that reveals far too much.

What other ways could RFC strip the mask away?

L


KNick wrote:
lyonheart wrote:Hi The E,

Why not?

They're part and parcel of the Malign, how are they different or better?

Given they're the front of the MAlign, Alpha line members committed to the destruction of 99.999% of the human race, I think they are 'persons of interest' to the GA.

L


WE, as readers, know that the RF is a front for the MAlign. No one outside of those from the MAlign in direct contact with them have that knowledge yet. Until someone from an impeccable intelligence source (C&Z) can prove that they are in fact a front organization, they will be treated the same as any other polity.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Will the RF really be all that hard to find?
Post by kzt   » Wed May 28, 2014 11:28 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:Personally, I think Audrey is toast, at least if she's still on Mesa when Mike gets there and asks for an interview. There's one key question from Mike to Audrey: "Who sent you here?" If she tells the truth, they know she's an Alignment mole, if she doesn't, they know she's lying, so she's probably an Alignment mole.

And her answer will be the totally true answer that her company sent her there. And as soon as you turn this into a hostile encounter things will go badly for the Manticore person who did that. She's known SL wide, she's extremely well connected and very, very smart. I don't care if you have a treecat there or not, she'll turn the entire encounter into a fiasco and then she'll broadcast it.
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Re: Will the RF really be all that hard to find?
Post by n7axw   » Thu May 29, 2014 12:43 am

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One thing that might turn out more significant than we have been generally recognizing is that some Alignment folk have been coming up with moral qualms about the Alignment's methodology, and perhaps even its goals. First there was Jack McBride and his brother Zachariah. Then remember Herlander Simoes. Irvine Lajos was starting to experience some of the same symptoms when he starting to talk to Victor when his suicide routine kicked in...

Will there be others? Think Audrey Hanrahan... Her work as a investigative journalist is basically a cover for her work as an Alignment mole. But she has invested many years doing her job as a journalist and building her credibility. Because information within the Alignment is so heavily compartmentalized, Audrey knows comparatively little. How will she react if she catches a glimpse of the big picture?

There could be others as well. Houdini was far to complicated to come off without a hitch. Imagine someone who was supposed to be evacuated getting left behind and becoming furious at the destruction Houdini left in its wake.

The possibilities are endless. The next book could indeed tell a story of interesting times.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Will the RF really be all that hard to find?
Post by SYED   » Thu May 29, 2014 3:00 am

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I figured that at some point, they would think to check the wormhole in torch with warships, and deal with the mannerheim force getting their computers.
But then in one of the books, it was mentioned a Spider drive ship was being sent to the torch area to keep watch, possibly to deal with the dynamic spy duo.
if detected and caotured, its computer would show the twins, felix, darius, and all sort of data.
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Re: Will the RF really be all that hard to find?
Post by Scuffles   » Thu May 29, 2014 4:12 am

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There's no particular reason why anyone would suspect a Solarian investigative reporter who's been reporting everything fairly for decades to be an agent for the Alignment just because she happened to be on Mesa when things started going boom.

I don't see any reason why anyone would start asking pressing questions, let along conducting full on treecat assisted interrogations.
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Re: Will the RF really be all that hard to find?
Post by The E   » Thu May 29, 2014 5:19 am

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lyonheart wrote:Hi The E,

Why not?

They're part and parcel of the Malign, how are they different or better?

Given they're the front of the MAlign, Alpha line members committed to the destruction of 99.999% of the human race, I think they are 'persons of interest' to the GA.

L


Remind me again where indiscriminate genocide was on the MAlign's todo list? Because I can't remember it.
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