The Grand Alliance Grand Attack

n7axw wrote:The second group has to do with the protectorates in the shell and the verge, especially those whose people have been repressed by OFS and as a consequence have either no established institutions of public governance or very weak ones. These are the people who are vulnerable to warlordism, outright dictatorships or peoples republics. I suspect that in areas of the League where this has been true, the ride is about to get very bumpy.

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:The second group has to do with the protectorates in the shell and the verge, especially those whose people have been repressed by OFS and as a consequence have either no established institutions of public governance or very weak ones. These are the people who are vulnerable to warlordism, outright dictatorships or peoples republics. I suspect that in areas of the League where this has been true, the ride is about to get very bumpy.

It's going to be amusing when the response to Manticore lifting the iron boot of OFS off the verge systems is for these verge systems to immediately engage in an orgy of military adventurism, looting and mass murder. I'm sure the buck passing on that "totally unexpected" outcome will be pretty special in the debates in Parliament.

fallsfromtrees wrote:There is a difference between what happened in Meyers, and what will happen with a lot of the other systems that will want to sign treaties with the GA. Meyers was effectively conquered by the SEM. Most of the others will not be in a similar situation - They will be approaching the SEM, and saying "We would like to place nice with you, what about it?" in circumstances like that the SEM either says yes, and never discusses the internal structure of the other party, or says "We don't think so" and declines. If you do the latter, you had best be prepared to go to war with them, because you have said we don't want to play nice with you.

n7axw wrote:Protectorates, no. There the object will be to boot out the local OFS governor and cleanse the area of OFS influence.

n7axw wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:There is a difference between what happened in Meyers, and what will happen with a lot of the other systems that will want to sign treaties with the GA. Meyers was effectively conquered by the SEM. Most of the others will not be in a similar situation - They will be approaching the SEM, and saying "We would like to place nice with you, what about it?" in circumstances like that the SEM either says yes, and never discusses the internal structure of the other party, or says "We don't think so" and declines. If you do the latter, you had best be prepared to go to war with them, because you have said we don't want to play nice with you.

I think it will depend on the system involved. Core systems or Shell systems in control of their own affairs, yes.

Protectorates, no. There the object will be to boot out the local OFS governor and cleanse the area of OFS influence.

Don

Lord Skimper wrote:The key to attacking a large area with a small very good force is to keep them together and don't let them know you are coming.

The way it works is they only know you are coming if a ship goes there and says you are coming.

You take your fleet forces and you visit each place leaving behind a picket of LAC and small cruisers. You kill who you have to kill, you take the surrender of some places, etc....

It takes very few superior ships to take over and control a vast area. In medieval times people only knew about an attack after someone who saw it reported it to them. The conquerors would ride into a town or city and sack it or accept its surrender. They didn't have vast armies under their command usually just one or two.

The Honorverse can work the same way.

As for a diplomatic ship, a Nike with a small escort can dispatch pretty much anything a single system can put in its way. For larger concentrations half a dozen SD(P) can handle pretty much anything else, or a larger force can come in and wipe them out.

Honor and Mike operating the two fleets can conquer the SL in a year or two. Lester and Truman can handle diplomatic operations. Everyone else can hold the fort and handle escort duties.

3-600 SD(P) and another 3-600 BCL and Cruisers can mop up the SL in a couple three years.

Zakharra wrote:

Lord Skimper wrote:The key to attacking a large area with a small very good force is to keep them together and don't let them know you are coming.

The way it works is they only know you are coming if a ship goes there and says you are coming.

You take your fleet forces and you visit each place leaving behind a picket of LAC and small cruisers. You kill who you have to kill, you take the surrender of some places, etc....

It takes very few superior ships to take over and control a vast area. In medieval times people only knew about an attack after someone who saw it reported it to them. The conquerors would ride into a town or city and sack it or accept its surrender. They didn't have vast armies under their command usually just one or two.

The Honorverse can work the same way.

As for a diplomatic ship, a Nike with a small escort can dispatch pretty much anything a single system can put in its way. For larger concentrations half a dozen SD(P) can handle pretty much anything else, or a larger force can come in and wipe them out.

Honor and Mike operating the two fleets can conquer the SL in a year or two. Lester and Truman can handle diplomatic operations. Everyone else can hold the fort and handle escort duties.

3-600 SD(P) and another 3-600 BCL and Cruisers can mop up the SL in a couple three years.

Conquer the SL? Not a chance in hell. Destroy it, yes, but conquer? No way. The SL is simply to big. To conquer something, you need to be able to control it and that means boots on the ground. Having a fleet that can pop in and out of areas to blast things apart isn't conquering anything. It's raiding. Remember that the strategy of the SEM isn't to conquer the SL, because it admits in the books and RFC himself has said (I believe) that the SEM, or the GA literally cannot conquer the SL because it is to bloody big. The entire GA would be stretched too thin militarily trying to conquer the SL, and in the process they would be guaranteeing that there would be a successor state to the SL that would rise up with the full intention of wiping out the GA.

n7axw wrote:There is an obvious military component to this. But one basically conquers one's enemy by making him your friend. That is what's really at the heart of the Harrington doctrine.