Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:For any situation. From all the talk, I was beginning to think that the LACs could just fire and hand everything off. Missiles and CMs. I have this sinking feeling now that I'm wrong. And I have a distinct notion that it's because I have no clue what the hell a PDLC is.

I know what a PDLC is to the SLN. A Pretty Damn-Destructive Lac Count.

A PDLC is a Point Defense Laser Cluster. Basically a group of lasers which try to destroy enemy missiles. The lasers can fire much faster than anti-ship lasers, but are correspondingly weaker and have much shorter range. Modern Manticoran capital ships typically have 8 lasers per cluster, but some old light cruisers only had 2 lasers per cluster.

In the old missile environment, the lasers in a cluster fired in sequence, often at different targets. So in a 8-laser cluster, the cluster would fire laser 1, then laser 2, and so on to laser 8, then back to 1. The time between shots is determined by the cycle time on the lasers. Modern Manticoran cycle times are 16 seconds, so an 8-laser cluster would fire a laser every 2 seconds.

However, PDLCs can also switch to firing every laser in the cluster at the same time. So the Manticoran cluster could fire 8 lasers at once, then wait 16 seconds to fire again. The accuracy of each shot is lower in this mode than when firing one laser at a time, but it is useful in the modern environment where the enemy missiles are coming in so fast that they cross the PDLC range in only a couple seconds.

The Katana carries 3 PDLCs, each the same size as used on Manticoran superdreadnoughts. So a flock of Katanas one or two million kilometers ahead of your fleet can shoot down enemy missiles before they even reach counter-missile range of your superdreadnoughts. This is in addition to the limited supply of Viper missiles the Katanas can fire at enemy missiles.

cthia wrote:If that is the case, then why can't the LACs just launch their missiles and beat feet when in the company of SD(p)s?

If there are GA SD's in the area, why would you need to put LACs in harm's way at all?

Well when accompanying SD(P)s then the LACs are usually there for defensive purposes; since the SD(P) has plenty of offense.

So it you wanted to flush the offensive missiles of a Ferret in support of the SD(P)s it would need to charge much much closer to the enemy. By that point the SD(P)s have probably shredded them. (Plus LACs have no business tangling with wallers - the normal prey of SD(P)s)

Missile ranges:
Viper missile - 3.5 million km
LAC missile (SDM) - presumably 7.3 milling km
MDM - 65.7 milion km

So instead the Ferret would almost always hang back closer to the SD(P)s and act as part of the anti-missile screen. Katanas can do that role a bit better, be "even" a Ferret is pretty good, and a Shrike isn't horrible.


But if you're talking flushing the CMs then then running, the LACs can't hand those off to the SD(P)s because:
First, the SD(P)s can themselves launch more CMs than they can control; and
Second, the LACs are probably at least 4-5 million km downrange - with is further than the effective fire control range for a CM. That positioning lets them provide an outer CM envelope and lets the SD(P)s focus on only engaging the leakers. But that positioning also means it takes a non-trivial amount of time to "beat feet" back to the SD(P)s. They're going to keep firing their own CMs until they run dry, then continue engaging incoming missiles with the point defense laser clusters (PDLCs)



However CLACs aren't tied to SD(P)s. You also can (and have) done raids with a CLAC or two with DD/CL escorts where you drop in well outside the hyper limit and send LACs in to tear up the system. (The hyper capable warships stick with the CLAC). That kind of detached raid (or a system defense group) is where Shrikes and Ferrets are much more effective than Katanas.

You know what I never figured out? What the h-e-double-hockey sticks was Reginald Houseman really doing in the Yeltsin system at that appointed time. He was a politician and an economist. I didn't see where the situation needed either. It certainly didn't need an economist.

If Elizabeth really wanted Grayson as an ally, then why send along a worm and a fly in the ointment. With Houseman, she sent both. And no one can talk me into believing that Houseman didn't turn into an asshole of a worm until the trip to Yeltsin.

Okay, maybe the situation did call for a politician. But it had one already in Ambassador Langtry. Right?

cthia wrote:You know what I never figured out? What the h-e-double-hockey sticks was Reginald Houseman really doing in the Yeltsin system at that appointed time. He was a politician and an economist. I didn't see where the situation needed either. It certainly didn't need an economist.

If Elizabeth really wanted Grayson as an ally, then why send along a worm and a fly in the ointment. With Houseman, she sent both. And no one can talk me into believing that Houseman didn't turn into an asshole of a worm until the trip to Yeltsin.

Okay, maybe the situation did call for a politician. But it had one already in Ambassador Langtry. Right?

Manticore's Centrists have to put together a government, when they can, without alienating anyone more than they have to. They've had to hold their noses and form governments with Conservatives - making worse problems with the Liberals just means getting deeper into bed with the likes of Michael Janvier. Brrr!

If you don't worry about the fact that he's a worm, a coward, a snake, an ideologue who does not live in the real world and despises people who do, and has a sense of good judgment that would disgrace a brain-damaged puppy with low blood sugar and a full bladder... he's a capable economist and policy wonk. Yes, yes that is a lot to try not to worry about. Boy howdy. The mission involved a complicated number of loans and infrastructure development projects: how to turn money into a modern star system economy.

That would be a whole lot more than what could be handled as well as it ought to be by the political skills of Langtry or Courvosier. Their jobs, in addition to plenty else, was to sit on him, for which their awesome and thoroughly praiseworthy skills were entirely necessary and for which as well they were not possibly paid well enough.

cthia wrote:You know what I never figured out? What the h-e-double-hockey sticks was Reginald Houseman really doing in the Yeltsin system at that appointed time. He was a politician and an economist. I didn't see where the situation needed either. It certainly didn't need an economist.

If Elizabeth really wanted Grayson as an ally, then why send along a worm and a fly in the ointment. With Houseman, she sent both. And no one can talk me into believing that Houseman didn't turn into an asshole of a worm until the trip to Yeltsin.

Okay, maybe the situation did call for a politician. But it had one already in Ambassador Langtry. Right?

Actually, there was legitimate reason to bring an economist along. One of the purposes of the mission was to demonstrate to Grayson how Manticore could assist the Grayson economy. Houseman was supposed to help negotiate trade deals with Grayson, decide how Manticore could boost the Grayson economy, and work out economic elements of the alliance treaty.

Houseman was almost certainly chosen by the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party was an important component in the Cromarty coalition government at the time. The Liberals undoubtedly demanded the right to name one of the members of the diplomatic mission. If they did make a demand like that, Cromarty couldn't refuse. It's pure political give and take.

Going back to PDLCs briefly, someone privately pointed out to me that AAC says PDLCs on the Nike-class BC each contain 14 lasers, with a cycle rate of 16 seconds. I assume that modern Manticoran superdreadnoughts also have at least 14 lasers per cluster. The wiki appears to be wrong when it says Manticore uses PDLCs with 8 lasers each on its capital ships. The Katana probably also uses 14 per cluster.

Concerning Raul & Katherine, who do you think will become the spook and who will become the spacer?

For me it has to be Raul who becomes the spook because of the advantages he will have inherited from Honor, and the subtle ways the 'cats will have conditioned his mind as he grows up.

George J. Smith wrote:Concerning Raul & Katherine, who do you think will become the spook and who will become the spacer?

For me it has to be Raul who becomes the spook because of the advantages he will have inherited from Honor, and the subtle ways the 'cats will have conditioned his mind as he grows up.

Interesting question George. I was initially thinking that they'd both want to follow in Honor's footsteps. The legend that belongs to the Salamander is going to be hard to avoid. The Navy is going to attract them both like a beacon in the night.

But. Since you asked the question and got me to thinking - thinking, you shouldn't oughta gone and done that - I'm pondering how all the other little kids will treat the Harrington kids in school. Kids can get jealous, and jealousy can lead to bullies and cruelty. Just plain rotten meanness.

Now, Raoul ain't gonna be the type to let anyone abuse his little sister, and his preschool years could turn him into a little Anton, or a Victor. Or even an Alfred. Remember, a short fuse runs in that family. As far as we know, it began with Alfred and my guess is it grows shorter with each generation.

Katherine just may choose a civilian role. She may end up running Honor's lucrative empire. The Harrington Empire!


****** *


Don't yall think Honor should name her next daughter, Sally Mander Harrington?

Sally will be the one to watch for. When she's old enough she'll remove her own soiled diaper and sling it at the lazy nanny. When the nanny asks her...

"Why'd you do that Sally?!"

"Because you're a lazy bitch and the shit just hit the fan!"

Forgive Johnny come lately if this has already been discussed.

IIRC, in a Short Victorious War, Haven's financial problems were all laid out. It was determined that they had to maintain their MO of expansionists. It was determined it was imperative to their economy. I didn't get the feeling that the expense of war was at the center of those financial problems, but was a result of those problems.

What has changed that Haven's financial problems has gone away, to prevent them from having to go back to business as usual?

cthia wrote:Forgive Johnny come lately if this has already been discussed.

IIRC, in a Short Victorious War, Haven's financial problems were all laid out. It was determined that they had to maintain their MO of expansionists. It was determined it was imperative to their economy. I didn't get the feeling that the expense of war was at the center of those financial problems, but was a result of those problems.

What has changed that Haven's financial problems has gone away, to prevent them from having to go back to business as usual?

That was covered somewhat in the books.
What was killing their economy was a huge number of people on government support ("the dole", "dolists") not contributing to the economy but taking money from the treasury.

But one good side effect of Cordelia Ransom's PR bullshit was to motivate large numbers of them back to work to fight the "rapacious" "imperialist" Manties. (Ironically if enough had been inspired to do that before the war, they wouldn't have needed the war). Making a big impact on the unemployment rate - years of war spending - would help a lot of their problems.


Then also, some of the marginal systems may have withdrawn from the restored Republic under the type of plebiscites that Pritchart was planning to hold in the occupied systems, once a peace treaty got Manticore to pull out of them.