TheMonster wrote:Weird Harold wrote:First, I think Alizon is far too optimistic about the League surviving long enough or having enough shipyard capacity to field new designs. but...
That's because the moment Beowulf certifies their Mycroft system is fully online (and the Beowulf Terminus forts receive extra pods and the fire control to handle them), freeing up Truman's TF, Grand Fleet is going to start taking out the major construction sites in the SL (with the deliberate exception of Sol itself). If memory serves, the number of sites capable of building wallers is quite limited.
The way I expect it to typically go down is for Grand Fleet (or one of its task forces if they don't need the whole enchilada) to show up, demand the surrender of all Solarian personnel in the system, get everyone off the construction platforms, and let loose a bunch of Shrikes (with Katana escort in case of any shenanigans) to slice them up with their grasers, just to save ammo.
Option 2: Marines will hook up remote controls for the fusion plants, retreat to a safe distance, and deliberately overload them so they blow up.
Well, we're all pretty much aware of what the Manties might do and how vulnerable the League is right now but the concept of this thread isn't to pretend you're the Manty fleet, it's that your the Solarian commander. Other than give up, what do you do?
As to the Battleship concept, yes, ton for tone Battleships are faster than an SD given the same drive technology. Manty compensators are significantly superior to those used by Solarian League warships and one way you can at least compensate for this is by building smaller ships. It might take a while for even this strategy create a BB design with the speed and compensator capability of a RMN SD, but it will help the Solarians close the gap so that the disadvantages the labor under now are less pronounced.
As for whether BB's are capable of taking on SD's in anything like an equal engagement, the answer is obviously no but you're not going to be able to build
anything that is. As it currently stands, any SD the Solarians can currently build isn't going to be much more survivable than a BB, but it will be slower and it will take, by the estimates listed above, around a half year longer to build. It that may not seem like much but a yard building BB's will be a half year into the construction of BB #2 before the yard constructing the SD cranks out it's first. That means desperately outmatch Solarian fleets will have newer more capable vessels in their squadrons a half a year earlier and build up to useful numbers even faster.
You also have more flexibility in the types of facilities you can use to build BB's. SD's are BIG which limits the number of shipyards and building slips which can handle them. BB's are smaller which expands that list and also simplifies yard expansions needed to build them. For example if a SD takes say the resources of two building slips and a BB takes one and a half, you can not only build the BB's faster but you can build more of them using the same resources.
And in my original post, I noted construction of DN's and/or BB's. DN's would certainly be preferable it the League can afford the longer build times and capacity issues. They would be somewhat more powerful but they would also be slower than BB's, have longer construction times and consume more resources. If the Solarians reach phase III a lot will depend on how badly the SLN needs these more advanced ships. If they need them desperately and need them quickly, then a mix weighted toward BB's would look attractive. If things are bad but more stable then the DN's would be a better deal.
And yes, DW has mentioned that any construction of BB's would be more along the lines of the BIG BC's recently introduce in the RMN. But this only really applies to those entities which are in Manticore's league. A BC of that size built by the Solarian League would not have the speed to run much if any better than a BB but it would lack the protection to survive long enough to do any good. While building these huge BC's does make sense for the RMN, it makes little sense for the SLN.
You'll also note that I taken the time factor of current needs into account. Phase I is just taking existing vessels and making them as capable as possible. New construction Phase II are new builds but based heavily on existing designs while incorporating additional advanced features and capabilities which are not reasonable to retrofit to older vessels without completely rebuilding them.
Phase II would contain no DN's or BB's because there isn't enough time to design them and there is no existing design which can be quickly modified to create them.
One final note about Solarian capabilities. I think it would be a mistake to identify what the Solarians have done with what they can do. The League has had centuries of peace with no real challenge to the power of the SLN. Under those circumstances, it's no wonder that SLN base designs have largely frozen and that there are a limited number of shipyards engaged in military vessel construction. This does not denote, however, the actual capabilities of the League. There are undoubtedly a LOT of yard capability which could be turned toward military production and there's industrial capacity to build a great deal more.
SLN ships probably don't have the best technology that the League has to offer, by and large they haven't needed it. That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of capability to obtain and build far more sophisticated systems or even that significantly more advanced system that what is currently in use isn't already available within the League. This won't in most cases be anywhere near the capabilities of current Haven or Manty systems but they should allow close to immediate improvements available to be incorporated in Phase I upgrades. The most difficult and essential aspect of this phase will be the development of a missile system capable of approaching that of Manty and Havenite systems and a pod to carry it.
