HMS Madrigal

SharkHunter wrote:

Garth 2 wrote:What not to say that HMS Madrigal isn't already on the List and First Yeltsin was just added to her Battle Honours off screen?

It may just have been we haven't encountered the replacement in story yet (though it would be nice to).

As for Admiral Courvosier, again it could all of happened off screen, after all there's a reference to Young "celebrating" the Admiral death.

If it hasn't happened, I wonder if it was due to the influence of Honor's enemies such as the Youngs (using the North Hollow files), the Housemans, Janacek et. al, or if the House of Lords even gets a say in how a ship is nominated and joins the list. That seems less likely given CL-56 Fearless being added to the list, by the way, but then again we don't know how it happens, do we? That would be a nice inclusion into any anthology story or snippet that RFC might include in a future pearl or book.

Garth 2 wrote:It is possible, but its more likely that outside of the service Raoul role (which up to that point was mostly academy and deployment analysis based) isn't as well known/understood and at the end of the day he did his duty but didn't (technically) go "above and beyond" which would move him in to the 'hero' set. (After all if he had been fighting the Masadan Space Navy, HMS Madrigal wouldn't have even had its paint scratched).

Honor of the Queen, Chapter 1 wrote:It had been like a mob armed with clubs charging a man with a pulser. Madrigal's missiles had blown the cruisers Samson and Noah and the destroyer Throne right out of space as they closed, and then the Masadans entered her energy range and it only got worse. The cruiser David had survived, but she was little more than a hulk, and the destroyers Cherubim and Seraphim had been crippled before they ever got into their energy range.
Of course, the clubs had had their own turn after that. Crude as Masadan energy weapons were, there'd simply been too many of them for her, and they'd battered her to bits. But even after she'd been mortally wounded, Madrigal had set her teeth in the destroyers Archangel and Angel. She'd pounded them until she didn't have a single weapon left, and she'd taken Archangel with her. Of the entire squadron which had closed with her, only the cruiser Solomon and the destroyer Dominion remained combat effective.

SharkHunter wrote:Rereading Honor of the Queen again, just had an interesting thought, related to the fact that the Graysons have honored Courvosier with an entire class named after him, and also Jason Alvarez, the commander, but...

After the fact, shoulda been done previously yada yada...

Perhaps Honor or another officer begins a petition for the "HMS Madrigal should be a Ship of the List", and the lead ship for any DD class be named/renamed accordingly..."

Yes/no?

stewart wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:Rereading Honor of the Queen again, just had an interesting thought, related to the fact that the Graysons have honored Courvosier with an entire class named after him, and also Jason Alvarez, the commander, but...

After the fact, shoulda been done previously yada yada...

Perhaps Honor or another officer begins a petition for the "HMS Madrigal should be a Ship of the List", and the lead ship for any DD class be named/renamed accordingly..."

Yes/no?

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Forgotten which of the books, but one of the appendices shows GSN Madrigal and GSN Trubador as GSN cruisers.

Me thinks that the Graysons' have already attended to this minor item.

-- Stewart

SharkHunter wrote:Turns out you are correct. According to the Wikia there was a GSN Madrigal battlecruiser under construction around the First Battle of Hancock PD 1905. But I'd still argue that the RMN should do the same with a DD. That would be like saying "well, we don't need to put a heroic USN ship on a "ship of the list" because Britain did it. But -- with the textev that there may be an Alliance ship, that's a matter of MMHO and YMMV.

Dafmeister wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:Turns out you are correct. According to the Wikia there was a GSN Madrigal battlecruiser under construction around the First Battle of Hancock PD 1905. But I'd still argue that the RMN should do the same with a DD. That would be like saying "well, we don't need to put a heroic USN ship on a "ship of the list" because Britain did it. But -- with the textev that there may be an Alliance ship, that's a matter of MMHO and YMMV.

Thinking about it, given that Grayson was building a Madrigal , the RMN might deliberately choose not to for practical reasons. By that point the Alliance was signed and it was clear that the two navies would be fighting alongside each other for some time - perhaps the Admiralty decided it would be best to avoid duplicating names to avoid confusion.

fallsfromtrees wrote:You will note that the RMN (at least to the extent that text indicated) never built a Honor Harrington (class yes, but not a ship by that name), and they most certainly would have if not for some consideration of this nature.

Dafmeister wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:You will note that the RMN (at least to the extent that text indicated) never built a Honor Harrington (class yes, but not a ship by that name), and they most certainly would have if not for some consideration of this nature.

That may actually be the flaw in my argument. Both navies were going to call the first-generation SD(P)s the Honor Harrington-class, which indicates that both were going to have a ship called Honor Harrington - unless, of course, they were going to treat them as a single class across both navies (ignoring the differences between the GSN and RMN ships), with Grayson having the class-namer because they got them into production first.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Although it is customary to name the class of warships after the first ship in the class, I don't believe that there is a hard and fast rule to that effect. As an example we heard of the Medusa, Gryphon, and Sphinx class of SDs, but never of an actual HMS Medusa, Gryphon, or Sphinx.

n7axw wrote:Of course HMS Madrigal belongs on the list. Her gallant defense of Grayson for the honor of the Queen is in the finest traditions of the RMN and Raoul Courvesior (sp) belongs with Edward Saganami on the list of RMN's most honored.

I'm surprised it hasn't been attended to already...

Don