Speculation on the MA 'Master Plan' and Other Toys

JohnRoth wrote:

Garth 2 wrote:There has been a lot of talk on the boards about the MA and their reaction to the GA etc. and it got me wondering, we know in general terms the scoop of the 'original Master Plan':
* Destabilise the SL and Haven
* Have Haven and the SL fight it out and collapse
* Create the RF
* undo the Beowulf code and establish a caste base for Humanity based upon the purity of the individuals genetic code

but how far where they prepared to go to achieve this, what were they prepared to use?

After all, there was an off handed mention to Detweiler wife working on a new bioweapon, they did develop the bio/nano assassin program, and a whole new type of weapon system but what else where they going to bring to the party.

Thoughts?

I'd put your bullet point 4 up to the top, except for the "caste" and "purity" things. The other three things are strategic goals in service of the main goal, which is "genetic uplift" for some value of "uplift."

Rather than "purity," they're more about designing genomes for what the people are going to be doing. We have so far seen three "specialty types": two bodyguards and Lajos. The alphas, betas and gammas are part of that, but I'd object to the use of "caste" there as well since that's got a lot of baggage from the mistranslation from Hinduism. A much better translation would be something like "social function." Unfortunately, that mistranslation is now cast in concrete.

There's also another reference to Mrs. Detweiller being a top-level biological researcher specializing in bio-weapons.

I think caste is actually appropriate here. The Detweiler plan is designed to create a superior human who will rule the lesser humans, much as humans currently use the "lesser" animals. The vast majority of humanity will be so much cattle, to be slaughtered or modified at the whim of the superior castes. There will be specifically designed humans for each role, laborers, pleasure units, bodyguards, etc, each optimized for its specific function, but in no sense are they equal to real humans. They will in fact become the modern untouchables.

fallsfromtrees wrote:I think caste is actually appropriate here. The Detweiler plan is designed to create a superior human who will rule the lesser humans, much as humans currently use the "lesser" animals. The vast majority of humanity will be so much cattle, to be slaughtered or modified at the whim of the superior castes. There will be specifically designed humans for each role, laborers, pleasure units, bodyguards, etc, each optimized for its specific function, but in no sense are they equal to real humans. They will in fact become the modern untouchables.

Actually, it is not at all clear that this is the Detweiler plan. It certainly is not the Original Detweiler plan, as promulgated by Leonard Detweiler. It is the likely result of the plan, the way it is going currently. But it is not clear that a caste system is what the leaders of the Onion are consciously striving for, at least as they think of it.

Interesting question and thank you. First, the MA must survive. Survive by any means. Any. Next they must succeed. That means there must be something left to succeed with.

Next they must dominate. This also again means something must be left fairly intact. The more intact the better. How do they do this walking the fine line between success and failure?

First you fight? How much? How horribly? Genocide? I think that the MA kinda has painted themselves into a corner ... especially since the cat is now out of the bag. Yikes! Interesting.

Just me. HB of CJ (old coot) Cm. I love this Forum. Oh boy.

There are different levels to this.

Overall Mesan [Stratgic] Objective: undo the legal and cultural objections to the use of genetic engineering to further the process of human evolution

(Secondary Mesan [Strategic] Objective: stick it to Beowulf)

Now, this could have been done in any number of ways. And it could have been done in ways that might not have created the effective caste system that's emerging as a consequence of the project (but that would have been a very difficult thing to achieve, given unequal access to genetic engineering based on wealth).

But, the Mesans chose a specific plan to achieve this end: namely, to achieve direct political control over the majority of the human race and undo it from the top down. (A bottom-up approach would probably have worked better.)

Primary Mesan [Tactical] Objective: put people in control of the galaxy who do not believe in Beowulf's code of biomedical ethics.

Stages of Plan (at Plan's Conception):
(1) Take control of a number of prosperous systems
(2) Destabilize Solarian League
(3) Provide those systems as the core for a new Solarian League
(4) Incorporate majority of human race into new League
(5) Directly change social norms and intergalactic laws to make genetic engineering socially and legally acceptable

But, of course, step (4) relies on there not being alternatives out there that the human race might flock to for peace and security instead. And step (5) relies on people being willing to relinquish the old values once there is a new order. So, there're two additional steps:

Additional Stages of Plan (Added Along the Way)
(4)(i) Eliminate potential competitors of that new Solarian League core
(5)(i) Eliminate potential rivals who would stand up for the Beowulfan model of biomedical ethics

Which of course, led Mesa to target Haven (as the largest and most obvious competitor) and to a lesser extent Manticore (as a smaller competitor), as not only were those competitor cores but they also were strongly aligned with Beowulf and thus likely to make changing humanity's social norms re: genetic engineering more difficult. Unfortunately, their targeting of Haven and Manticore led to a devastating war between them which... caused each of them to come out of it in a stronger competitive position (and allied) at the key crisis moment.

Whoops.

That's more or less the way I've been seeing it. The Alignment hadn't consciously aimed for a caste system, but they methods they have chosen to reach their goals are creating one. And that near inevitability of the development of a caste system was one of the reasons Beowulf has fought against arbitrary genetic modification of humans. I think even now most people in the Alignment don't consciously realize what their plan is producing. They rationalize it, thinking that it will be necessary for some to oversee the others to ensure that their idealistic dream comes true. Simoes did realize it, as he looked at the implications of the Alignment plan.

SWM wrote:Simoes did realize it, as he looked at the implications of the Alignment plan.

Actually I'd say McBryde realized it more than Simoes, who was falling apart with no way to strike back at the people who decided his adopted daughter deserved to be euthanized.

After which Simoes became part of the "couriered message", sort of adopting whatever he could verify in the mission that McBryde was on, which we would have to believe as "reveal the whole onion"

SharkHunter wrote:

SWM wrote:Simoes did realize it, as he looked at the implications of the Alignment plan.

Actually I'd say McBryde realized it more than Simoes, who was falling apart with no way to strike back at the people who decided his adopted daughter deserved to be euthanized.

After which Simoes became part of the "couriered message", sort of adopting whatever he could verify in the mission that McBryde was on, which we would have to believe as "reveal the whole onion"

I'd agree with this. Simoes realized he's been hurt, but it was Simoes' hurt that made McBryde realize what the Alignment's plan actually meant.

Given the Alignment's penchant for compartmentalizing and isolating information, it is doubtful that McBryde had access to the whole truth regarding the onion.

This kinda remind me of the search for the Second Foundation in Asimov's series, only to discover at the very end that our real target is Gaia!

Don

n7axw wrote:Given the Alignment's penchant for compartmentalizing and isolating information, it is doubtful that McBryde had access to the whole truth regarding the onion.

This kinda remind me of the search for the Second Foundation in Asimov's series, only to discover at the very end that our real target is Gaia!

Don

No, he was not in the center of the Onion. But he was pretty far in. Deeper even that Simoes.

Agreed that it was McBryde who really saw the implications more than Simoes.

n7axw wrote:Given the Alignment's penchant for compartmentalizing and isolating information, it is doubtful that McBryde had access to the whole truth regarding the onion.

This kinda remind me of the search for the Second Foundation in Asimov's series, only to discover at the very end that our real target is Gaia!

Don

Yeah, they should nuke that planet. I never did like the idea behind the Gaia world and plan. Better to make sure its done. Orbital bombardment is the only way to be sure.